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Old 04-17-2019, 04:58 PM   #5657
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Again I don’t see a button that will allow me to do a new post. Hence the reply to the previous message.
Also, I am re-posting from before with a few additions. It doesn’t appear as though anyone answered my previous message.
I have a 2017 FR3 30DS. On the rear, I had to push the vertical bracket significantly to get it in the second hole. It was like it was spring loaded. Not the same on the front. Has anyone else had that experience?
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Old 04-17-2019, 05:11 PM   #5658
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I've been consider increasing the caster. I'm going to make the track bar, re-do the rear CHF, then run it and see what I have.. I may then take it over to the truck shop, have him do a front end alignment, and possibly shim the caster 1 or 2 more degrees. If everything is currently in spec, this may take me out to 6 degrees, MAYBE...
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:21 AM   #5659
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Ok lets be reasonable. Not once did I or anybody else recommend caster settings in the 9 or 10 plus degree range. I guess you'd call those reckless settings. We are just talking about setting on the high end or slightly beyond Fords recommendations. These IMHO and the opinions of many others are not reckless settings.

This is your position: "Fords caster limit, expresses to me, that they don't like the odds." You're assuming Fords engineers always know exactly what they are doing.

Here's just one example why some do raise questions.

We don't have to look and further than the stock SB setting from Ford. Since 1999 Ford has spent the time and $$$$$ to provide two holes/settings for sway control on every SB front and rear. I don't know how many thousands and thousands of chassis that might be nor do I know the added cost. In all that time (20 years) Ford neither offered written information regarding the sway adjustment nor do they set any factory chassis to the inner hole. Yet the inner hole position provides at least 50% better sway control.

In anybodies mind better SWAY control translates into less driver fatigue, greater driver and passenger ride comfort and therefore safer driving. In the last 9 years since John posted about the CHF I'd guess owners in the many thousands are now driving safer in their RV.

How many dozens of times have we read or heard of owners wanting to sell their RV's because they couldn't drive for more than a few hours. At the end of 3 or 4 hours of driving they were often scared, tense, exhausted and worn out or as some say here in AR, "Man I'm worn plum smooth."

I just have to ask a few simple questions. Why was it left up to the RVing community to just 9 years ago discover this adjustment? Who's not informing drivers of a simple adjustment to improve the safe handling of this large beast? Who decided not to inform the public? Now who's making reckless decisions?
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Old 04-18-2019, 09:02 AM   #5660
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Good analysis, TeJay. Another thought on why the caster can be increased on an rv chassis. Most rv’s on the f-53 chassis have a long tail overhang many feet beyond the rear axle. The “teeter totter” effect of this is to lighten the front end which lightens steering and increases wander. With this lightening effect I doubt a bit more caster will hurt anything.

Increasing the positive caster helps mitigate this and would not be appropriate for something like a delivery truck with a short rear overhang. Thus the rv has light steering and a delivery truck on the same chassis and load would have heavier steering.

Based upon my personal experience on the issue, I see np harm in a bit more positive caster. Is it appropriate for all f-53 chassis? No. But with rv’s having light steering already due to their usual design, yes.

This would explain why the tech that drove ours after the caster increase said he has driven many f-53 chassis with heavier steering.

BTW, today DW and I are dropping the rv off for a front end alignment but for toe only. When I told her we could get the caster reset to Ford spec, she asked what that would do. When I told her, she emphatically said absolutely not! She drove about 1/2 of our recent trip to Alaska and loved the way it drives.
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Old 04-18-2019, 12:58 PM   #5661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ras View Post
Again I donít see a button that will allow me to do a new post. Hence the reply to the previous message.
Also, I am re-posting from before with a few additions. It doesnít appear as though anyone answered my previous message.
I have a 2017 FR3 30DS. On the rear, I had to push the vertical bracket significantly to get it in the second hole. It was like it was spring loaded. Not the same on the front. Has anyone else had that experience?
That normally means the axle isn't level with frame putting the sway bar under load (its trying to correct the lean). Use a jack to level them and the bar will unload.

I park on a unpaved driveway that isn't perfectly level so this happened to me when I did the CHF. I used the leveling jacks to unload the bar.
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Old 04-18-2019, 01:31 PM   #5662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
Ok lets be reasonable. Not once did I or anybody else recommend caster settings in the 9 or 10 plus degree range. I guess you'd call those reckless settings. We are just talking about setting on the high end or slightly beyond Fords recommendations. These IMHO and the opinions of many others are not reckless settings.

This is your position: "Fords caster limit, expresses to me, that they don't like the odds." You're assuming Fords engineers always know exactly what they are doing.

Here's just one example why some do raise questions.

We don't have to look and further than the stock SB setting from Ford. Since 1999 Ford has spent the time and $$$$$ to provide two holes/settings for sway control on every SB front and rear. I don't know how many thousands and thousands of chassis that might be nor do I know the added cost. In all that time (20 years) Ford neither offered written information regarding the sway adjustment nor do they set any factory chassis to the inner hole. Yet the inner hole position provides at least 50% better sway control.

In anybodies mind better SWAY control translates into less driver fatigue, greater driver and passenger ride comfort and therefore safer driving. In the last 9 years since John posted about the CHF I'd guess owners in the many thousands are now driving safer in their RV.

How many dozens of times have we read or heard of owners wanting to sell their RV's because they couldn't drive for more than a few hours. At the end of 3 or 4 hours of driving they were often scared, tense, exhausted and worn out or as some say here in AR, "Man I'm worn plum smooth."

I just have to ask a few simple questions. Why was it left up to the RVing community to just 9 years ago discover this adjustment? Who's not informing drivers of a simple adjustment to improve the safe handling of this large beast? Who decided not to inform the public? Now who's making reckless decisions?
Try this. Ford uses the outer hole on the sway bar for better bad weather traction.

The more sway control, the less traction on the inside tire.

Yes, I trust Ford over an internet forum, to get it right.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:14 PM   #5663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
Try this. Ford uses the outer hole on the sway bar for better bad weather traction.

The more sway control, the less traction on the inside tire.

Yes, I trust Ford over an internet forum, to get it right.
Question - why did Ford put the "extra hole" in the swaybar? I have searched far and wide for another application of that same swaybar - not found anything yet.
Eventhough I believe there is, under certain circumstances, I don't see any traction difference since doing the CHF. A didsconnect of the swaybar would lend greater traction in rough terrain, I do it on my ATV. But then, it has an IRS.
I spoke with a Ford mechanic at a Ford Truck facility before doing my CHF, he said had seen it many times and had the done the work serveral times, as a Ford mechanic, in a Ford garage.
Maybe we are just not privy to all the information Ford has available.

Anyways, I like my MH with the CHF and see no reason for not doing it.

By your thinking, you would not approve of any aftermarket swaybar upgrades/replacements/additions?
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:05 PM   #5664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil-t View Post
Question - why did Ford put the "extra hole" in the swaybar? I have searched far and wide for another application of that same swaybar - not found anything yet.
Eventhough I believe there is, under certain circumstances, I don't see any traction difference since doing the CHF. A didsconnect of the swaybar would lend greater traction in rough terrain, I do it on my ATV. But then, it has an IRS.
I spoke with a Ford mechanic at a Ford Truck facility before doing my CHF, he said had seen it many times and had the done the work serveral times, as a Ford mechanic, in a Ford garage.
Maybe we are just not privy to all the information Ford has available.

Anyways, I like my MH with the CHF and see no reason for not doing it.

By your thinking, you would not approve of any aftermarket swaybar upgrades/replacements/additions?
I would have used CHF and have upgraded sway control. Didn't say I didn't like it.

The second hole is for the Zlink, maybe.

I don't have to support the safety of a huge fleet of chassis, where Ford does.

Anybody ever dig thru F53 options for handling adjustments ?
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Old 04-20-2019, 06:41 PM   #5665
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John,
I have a quick question about moving the sway bars to the second hole. I crawled under mine today and had a look to see what everyone was talking about. When you loosen the bolt from the end of the bar, do you also loosen the bracket bolt? How do you get the bar to move to the second hole. Mine seems to have a lot of strain on it. I saw one video with a fellow using a jack to move the sway bar up. Any advice would be appreciated.

David from Houston
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Old 04-20-2019, 06:51 PM   #5666
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Small jack to raise the one side is what I did. Only needed to move it a hair or two.
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:04 PM   #5667
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Davidm59,

The stabilizer bar (SB) is only held in place by resting inside rubber bushings and covered by a bolted on metal bracket. Yes it can be hard to move but it is just the metal SB inside a rubber bushings. Anyway you can muster some leverage and it will move. It also has to move up and down to do its job.

In regards to doing the CHF. If you are not perfectly level you can insert one bolt into the SB but the other side may need to be jacked up or forced down. The best way is to insert he high side and jack up the lower side. It's easier to jack or pry up rather than jacking or prying down.

When you remove the SB link bolt try to move the link back and forth. Usually the front links will rotate. Many time the back or rear link won't move and have to be loosened.
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:11 PM   #5668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidm59 View Post
John,
I have a quick question about moving the sway bars to the second hole. I crawled under mine today and had a look to see what everyone was talking about. When you loosen the bolt from the end of the bar, do you also loosen the bracket bolt? How do you get the bar to move to the second hole. Mine seems to have a lot of strain on it. I saw one video with a fellow using a jack to move the sway bar up. Any advice would be appreciated.

David from Houston

If you remove the bolts from both ends of the sway bar it should rotate freely in the bushings.
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Old 04-20-2019, 09:08 PM   #5669
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Hello Everyone,

I have a 2002 Four Winds Windsport 32R with a F53 22,000# Chassis. I Just did the mod and installed new bushing, Wow, what a great improvement on my short test drive.

I decided to check the clearance and raised the rear end up with my Jacks and the part of the sway bar that goes under the diff, made solid contact with the diff.

Just to be sure, Is it necessary for me to put on longer Hellwig 7962 lingks or is this not considered a problem?

Thank you in advance

Matt
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Old 04-20-2019, 09:30 PM   #5670
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Matt, Welcome to the forum.


Quote:
I decided to check the clearance and raised the rear end up with my Jacks and the part of the sway bar that goes under the diff, made solid contact with the diff.

Just to be sure, Is it necessary for me to put on longer Hellwig 7962 lingks or is this not considered a problem?
I just noticed this on mine last week while working on my track bar. I've been running like this for two years.

I have two new links that I'm going to install that should give more clearance between the sway bar and the differential. The original rear links are 10.5 center-to center. The new links (MEF-66) are 11.5 inch,

I haven't installed the new links yet, waiting for weather to clear. Heres what I did so far, with photos:

F53 Rear sway bar CHF re-do – 1999 Southwind 35S


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