RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE CHASSIS CLUB FORUMS > Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-30-2019, 03:23 AM   #5685
Member
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 97
I was just sitting around and thinking today about those who say that the CHF seemed to give them a rougher ride. Did any of you, after deciding that the CHF was rougher, back it out and add an auxiliary sway bar instead? If so, did you experience a rougher ride after that as well?

If I understand the case correctly - that more sway control = greater roughness when hitting a big bump, pothole, etc., with only one wheel - that you should experience that when using an aux sway bar as well?
__________________

__________________
JB, wife, 3 daughters, my dad, 3 cats
'08 Bounder 35H towing 2009 Honda Odyssey
bluegiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-30-2019, 05:57 AM   #5686
Senior Member - DIYer
 
Waiter21's Avatar


 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 6,295
My theory is: Before I did the CHF, I was so busy trying to keep the wheels straight I didn't notice how rough the ride was. After I did the CHF and wasn't fighting with the steering wheel, I noticed the MH rode like a bread-truck.
__________________

__________________
1999 Fleetwood Southwind 35S (Ford F53 6.8L V10 275hp 4R100 4 spd trans) - Toad 2003 Saturn Vue.
(www.1999Southwind.com)

It won't do MACH 2, but I can get a sandwich and take a pee.
Waiter21 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 07:14 AM   #5687
Senior Member
 
jharrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 1,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegiller View Post
I was just sitting around and thinking today about those who say that the CHF seemed to give them a rougher ride. Did any of you, after deciding that the CHF was rougher, back it out and add an auxiliary sway bar instead? If so, did you experience a rougher ride after that as well?

If I understand the case correctly - that more sway control = greater roughness when hitting a big bump, pothole, etc., with only one wheel - that you should experience that when using an aux sway bar as well?
The harshness felt will be a function of how much spring rate is added by the sway bar. Either the CHF or a secondary sway bar both add spring rate so they both could increase harshness by the same amount depending on final rate. For instance the Standard front sway bar is around 750 lbs/inch rate while the standard CHF gets it up to 1250 lbs/inch. A secondary sway bars rate is just added to the stocks for your final rate.

More spring rate, more force per inch deflection resisted results in less sway but more resistance to uneven bumps flexing the suspension instead transmitting forces to frame.

Since an RV is mostly a highway vehicle running on improved roads with a very high center of gravity increased sway control seem to be the better trade off.

I did the CHF and don't notice increased harshness in typical highway driving, but I didn't really do a great A/B comparison. With the CHF it would be pretty straight forward to undo it and measure road forces over a section of bad road with a smart phone, then do it again with the CHF and see if the difference is measurable. Also do it with a passenger who doesn't know how its set and get their impression. I may try this one day to satisfy my curiosity.
__________________
Eagle 5 - 2016 Winnebago Vista 31be - CHF - Blue Ox Rear Track Bar - Centramatics
320w solar - TriStar MPPT 60 - Magnum 3012 inverter
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad - Readybrute Elite Towbar
jharrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 09:59 AM   #5688
Senior Member
 
frede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fort Washington, MD
Posts: 216
When I first did the CHF I did notice an increase in harshness especially when passing over the seams in the roads especially when an asphalt road transitions to a concrete bridge and back. Another strange symptom was that the jarring would cause my cruise control to disengage. It was very frustrating and took me a while to relate the two, but the CHF’s reduction in sway was well worth it. The angle of my anti-sway bar and link was almost nonexistent. So I added TeJay’s adjustable brackets set to the “Normal CHF” setting which placed the anti-sway bar parallel to the road and the link at an angle of about 90 degrees. The ride was noticeably smoother especially over the seams and more importantly the cruise control only disengage a couple of times during two trips and over 600 miles. Thanks TeJay.
__________________
Fred Edelkamp, USAF Combat Camera Retired driving Betsy - 2004 Fleetwood Flair 33R F53 6.8 V10 20.5K | Samson 245/70R19.5 | CHF | Bilstein HD | Safe-T-Plus | 5 Star Tune | TST | Blue Ox Alpha Autostop | 2006 Jeep Wrangler TJ | 2009 Hyundai Accent hatchback
frede is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 10:20 AM   #5689
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 6,076
No matter how I state this some will tell me that spring rate is spring rate and it matters not what I or we feel. It makes no difference if you add more SR it will become harsher.

Yet I can point to several owners who added air bags, which according to the experts (and math doesn't lie) it is adding SR which will not soften or improve the ride. Yet they report the ride is BETTER. Even two owners stated they couldn't explain why it was a better ride but it was just a better ride.

I have also driven one RV with a new larger RM (RoadMaster) front and an additional new larger RM rear stabilizer bar (total of 3 SB) and it was not harsh. Another one had the same set up with 3 SB plus we did the CHF on the front and he didn't once complain of increased harshness.

I'm not saying that science does not matter. I do not want to begin another long discussion about the math. I'm not questioning the science/math just reporting what myself and others have experienced. You can call it drinking the cool-aid, the placebo effect or what ever you want to call it. If owners report the ride is a good trade-off, not harsh or it's just a better ride then that's just what it is. If they're happy with the change and/or improvement why call their response into question??

Brews Cruise post #5684 above states it as clearly as it could be stated. He's one of several hundred on this thread reporting the same very positive results.

"Going to Orlando I felt every semi truck that passed as I was pushed to the side. I was constantly correcting with the steering wheel which is tiring. The 95 mile return trip felt like I was driving a different coach. "

"But the biggest surprise came when multiple semi trucks blew by me as I was driving 65 mpg with a toad connected to my coach. It almost felt as if the semi trucks were not even there. I attribute this to the CHF. "
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
TeJay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 01:32 PM   #5690
Senior Member
 
jharrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 1,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by frede View Post
When I first did the CHF I did notice an increase in harshness especially when passing over the seams in the roads especially when an asphalt road transitions to a concrete bridge and back. Another strange symptom was that the jarring would cause my cruise control to disengage. It was very frustrating and took me a while to relate the two, but the CHF’s reduction in sway was well worth it. The angle of my anti-sway bar and link was almost nonexistent. So I added TeJay’s adjustable brackets set to the “Normal CHF” setting which placed the anti-sway bar parallel to the road and the link at an angle of about 90 degrees. The ride was noticeably smoother especially over the seams and more importantly the cruise control only disengage a couple of times during two trips and over 600 miles. Thanks TeJay.
Trying not to nitpick but the bridge seams and road transitions are typically not where a sway bar makes thing harsher since the go all the way across the road. If they where at angle and perpendicular to the road then they hit each wheel at different times then yes the sway bar comes into play.

If you feel it got harsher over normal seams and transitions the only thing that could be is the bushing being too stiff, if they don't move freely then the sway bar cannot pivot easily and can instead transmit more road shock through the bushings. This is why some people lube the bushings, my Jeep actually has grease zerks on the sway bar links to keep them moving freely.

Another nitpick but the "Normal" CHF is just doing the CHF spending money and time to add brackets would be the "modified" softer version of the CHF which reduces spring rate from 1250 lbs/in to 1000 lbs/in. Less sway control than the standard but less harshness due to it being softer.
__________________
Eagle 5 - 2016 Winnebago Vista 31be - CHF - Blue Ox Rear Track Bar - Centramatics
320w solar - TriStar MPPT 60 - Magnum 3012 inverter
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad - Readybrute Elite Towbar
jharrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 01:35 PM   #5691
Senior Member
 
jharrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 1,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
No matter how I state this some will tell me that spring rate is spring rate and it matters not what I or we feel. It makes no difference if you add more SR it will become harsher.

Yet I can point to several owners who added air bags, which according to the experts (and math doesn't lie) it is adding SR which will not soften or improve the ride. Yet they report the ride is BETTER. Even two owners stated they couldn't explain why it was a better ride but it was just a better ride.

I have also driven one RV with a new larger RM (RoadMaster) front and an additional new larger RM rear stabilizer bar (total of 3 SB) and it was not harsh. Another one had the same set up with 3 SB plus we did the CHF on the front and he didn't once complain of increased harshness.

I'm not saying that science does not matter. I do not want to begin another long discussion about the math. I'm not questioning the science/math just reporting what myself and others have experienced. You can call it drinking the cool-aid, the placebo effect or what ever you want to call it. If owners report the ride is a good trade-off, not harsh or it's just a better ride then that's just what it is. If they're happy with the change and/or improvement why call their response into question??
Tejay you have been doing automotive stuff for a long time I ma sure you know what putting stiffer springs on a car does. Sway bars are springs, Sumos are springs, Air bags are springs. THey add spring rate that is their job, they have different progressions due to their material and design but they are springs added in parallel to the main leafs. So you have your leafs plus these secondary springs, seems pretty straight forward to me especially with linear rate leafs not being touched.
__________________
Eagle 5 - 2016 Winnebago Vista 31be - CHF - Blue Ox Rear Track Bar - Centramatics
320w solar - TriStar MPPT 60 - Magnum 3012 inverter
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad - Readybrute Elite Towbar
jharrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 08:21 PM   #5692
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 47
24K Chassis

I have been following this thread for long enough now that I feel comfortable trying the CHF. Is there anything specific or different with the 24K chassis?
HappiPappa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 09:29 PM   #5693
Senior Member
 
Palms's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brews Cruise View Post
TeJay, I had the CHF done on the front SB while I had my coach in for alignment with balance and truing of the front wheels/tires. The previous owner of my coach had already installed a second Roadmaster Sway Bar on the rear, so I left that alone. I noticed an immediate improvement as soon as I drove it. About 95 miles each way from my house to Orlando, FL. where I had the work done. A little over 80 of those miles each was was Interstate driving, 6 miles of divided highway getting to/from the Interstate, and about 8 or 10 miles of city street driving in Orlando. Going to Orlando I felt every semi truck that passed as I was pushed to the side. I was constantly correcting with the steering wheel which is tiring. The 95 mile return trip felt like I was driving a different coach. The toe in was corrected which eliminated the wandering and steering wheel corrections, a slight vibration felt in the steering wheel was corrected by truing the tires and balancing. But the biggest surprise came when multiple semi trucks blew by me as I was driving 65 mpg with a toad connected to my coach. It almost felt as if the semi trucks were not even there. I attribute this to the CHF. Now I am ready for a road trip so that my wife and I can enjoy our new ride!


Can you share the name of the shop in Orlando? Any contact there? Thank you.
Palms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 10:07 PM   #5694
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Onalaska, Texas
Posts: 56
TeJay
What do you think about using a blue Safe T Plus on a F 53 22000 lb chassis as aposed to the lighter one one they recomend. It’s a 33 ft. Tiffin. And I have a blue one sitting in my garage.
Thanks Chuck Seidel
__________________
2002 Holiday Endeavor
330 Cummins ISC
cseidel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 04:55 AM   #5695
Senior Member
 
Winnebago Owners Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by cseidel View Post
TeJay
What do you think about using a blue Safe T Plus on a F 53 22000 lb chassis as aposed to the lighter one one they recomend. It’s a 33 ft. Tiffin. And I have a blue one sitting in my garage.
Thanks Chuck Seidel
I am not TeJay but I have met him lol, the bigger the unit you put on the more feedback you will get at the steering wheel. DW (me either) did not like it on ours so we took it off.

We have the 26000 chassis.
__________________
2014 Itasca Sunova 33C, 2019 Jeep Cherokee Lattitude Plus toad, Demco tow bar, SMI braking system.
georgelesley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 05:11 AM   #5696
Senior Member
 
jharrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 1,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by cseidel View Post
TeJay
What do you think about using a blue Safe T Plus on a F 53 22000 lb chassis as aposed to the lighter one one they recomend. It’s a 33 ft. Tiffin. And I have a blue one sitting in my garage.
Thanks Chuck Seidel
I have wondered this too, I have seen a couple post on here saying to get the teal one (not blue) because the normal one limits steering on the F53 because its too short as well. The teal one is the same as blue but longer for more throw.

The heavier ones should hold center better but take more effort to turn which could be annoying. If I bought one right now I would probably try the teal instead of the recommended one.
__________________
Eagle 5 - 2016 Winnebago Vista 31be - CHF - Blue Ox Rear Track Bar - Centramatics
320w solar - TriStar MPPT 60 - Magnum 3012 inverter
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad - Readybrute Elite Towbar
jharrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 08:11 AM   #5697
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 6,076
I have used and installed 3 steering shocks each with slightly varied results.

The first was a truck shock ($50) designed to work as a steering dampener. They set horizontal and dampen the same in both directions. It worked OK.

The second was a Bilstein ($100). That also gave similar results. After 2-3 months of driving I kept wondering why there wasn't a AAhhh moment because I couldn't determine if it was doing anything. Then it dawned on me. It is designed to dampen sudden chassis movements from wind gusts. I felt the wind gusts (truck or natural) less so in fact both shocks were working. Between the 2 I didn't notice any difference in dampening but if it dampens then they are working.

What I had failed to recognise is driving in windy conditions varies tremendously. There are many variables between RV's and with where we drive. Besides the obvious differences in winds trees & buildings act as windbreaks. Semi's pose somewhat of a similar wind threat but we all know if the semi passes us going fast or closer to our rear end the effect is much greater.

How many time have posters reported they have done this or that MOD and are pleased with the results and won't do any more. Then they encounter a wind condition they never experienced and decide maybe they need to do more.

Last May my Son and I took the RV (10 hours) from AR directly north to MN. We traveled through the wind farm area of Iowa and encountered steady prevailing westerly winds, gusts of some decent strength. Perfect for wind generation not so perfect for driving a sail. These were conditions I had not experienced in some time.

When we drive west the winds are head on or quarter the RV. Then we turn around and head back East with the opposite effects. This was our first trip (in this RV) with steady continuous cross winds traveling across flat lands.

Much of the time we had to hold left rudder going north and right rudder going south while at the same time dealing with the intermittent variable wind gusts. That's when I decided I had not driven in all types of wind conditions recently & for better driver comfort more improvement needed to be made.

After a little research I decided to use the Roadmaster steering shock for RV's. That has a good damping shock and the heavy spring designed to maintain the steering wheel center position.

I will be heading along the route later in May so we'll see. I've done this trip a lot in cars/trucks but only two times in a MH.

I liked the results of the RSSA dampening system. The power steering pump will provide sufficient assist even with the RSSA stabilizer/heavy spring setup to not require the driver to work any harder at steering. We have only taken a few trips with it installed and they have been mostly over 2-lane roads here in AR traveling in all 4 directions. We've not had the steady cross winds yet.

I advised csidel to install the blue shock on his 22,000 lb chassis. If I had tried three different dampening shocks and this RM has the additional heavy spring and I still felt no increase in steering difficulty why not? All my driving so far is very relaxed with little concern for winds or semi's. I feel nothing except little to no wind effect and better centering control.

Ninety eight percent of the time we make slight steering wheel adjustments with the occasional exit into a fuel stop or a campground. All of that with just slightly more turning. How often do we parallel parked an RV?

When installing the RM system you do have to attach the set up while the steering wheel is perfectly centered. That assures there is no spring tension trying to move the steering wheel left or right from center.

It's very easy to do the final adjustment. After the install if you have to hold the SW left or right to keep centered drive into a parking lot keep it straight and turn the engine off. Loosen the end of the shock attached to the drag link and it will adjust itself to center.
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
TeJay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 09:20 AM   #5698
Senior Member
 
jharrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 1,462
Here is the post regarding the white(or blue) vs teal on a 20k chassis and turning radius issues:

Safe-T-Plus issue

I know for me any limit on wheel cut would not be acceptable, Tejay did you notice an limit from the Roadmaster?
__________________

__________________
Eagle 5 - 2016 Winnebago Vista 31be - CHF - Blue Ox Rear Track Bar - Centramatics
320w solar - TriStar MPPT 60 - Magnum 3012 inverter
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad - Readybrute Elite Towbar
jharrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Workhorse! Please take notes on how Toyota is handling their recall! dezertcamper Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 388 07-18-2010 01:49 PM
Fuel filter fix Discovery 2008 Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 2 10-14-2009 09:48 PM
Icemaker Fix JDT Monaco Owner's Forum 2 09-13-2009 12:14 PM
Fiberglass siding delaminating. Fix? timmosazz MH-General Discussions & Problems 3 07-29-2009 05:22 PM
Rain Fix NEW ?? tvp Newmar Owner's Forum 18 01-13-2006 08:29 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×