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Old 08-21-2019, 11:11 PM   #5797
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Originally Posted by NXR View Post
Woo hoo! I just finished reading every post on this subject since #1. Well, "fully read" most and skimmed a few. Took over a week.

I now understand the pros and cons but still need to decide what to do. We have the 2019 F53 22,000 lb. chassis with under a thousand miles on it, with 22.5" wheels. We did have a blue Safe-T-Plus added right from the start. We have the 242" wheelbase version.

It does "wallow" in turns and when hitting dips in the road on one side so I'm thinking the CHF while maintaining the original angle is the way to go.

It does not get pushed by semis very much. We'll feel a gentle nudge to the right as they come up on us and that's it. Easily controlled.

We have not noticed very much "tail wagging the dog" but do not have a lot of experience with driving it yet. We will be towing a 3,700 lb. car on a dolly soon.

Would a rear trac bar (proactively installed) help keep things stable?

The UltraTrac one looks good to me. When installing the rear trac bar bracket to the differential, is there ever any fluid leakage when so many bolts on one side get removed?

The UltraTrac instructions say to use Loctite Red and someone else mentioned they had a hard time removing the original bolts because they had "red" on them. The instructions say you may need to use 500-degree heat to remove bolts with Loctite Red.

How does using a blowtorch on a differential sound? Sounds "not good" to me but they also seem to make several products known as "red". https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/...tite-2620.html

One thing I have noticed while following the motorhome in a car is there is a LOT of bouncing of the rear when going over small bums in the road. You cannot feel this while driving but it looks like it has no rear shocks. Is that normal?

Thanks,

Ray
I used the Blue Ox TigerTrak at the rear, which didn't require removing any of the differential bolts. I did it for my wife who often takes the RV out without me. I didn't feel it wagged enough to bother me, but she tended to try to fight it. If you feel it's not bad enough to bother you, I'd suggest you do the CHF first then decide.

And if you've read this entire thread, I'm in awe. LOL
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Old 08-22-2019, 05:12 AM   #5798
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I installed an Ultra Track on my 18000 chassis and it did not require removing any differential bolts. The results were remarkable for our motor home.
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Old 08-22-2019, 05:17 AM   #5799
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I do see that when you move beyond the 18k chassis that it attaches to the differential
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Old 08-22-2019, 05:30 AM   #5800
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Just spent about 30 minutes responding to some posts and when I tried to post it everything disappeared. Lost all that work!!! I hate when that happens and have to start again. I need to always save before trying to post.

I'll wait until tonight to respond. This is driving me crazy. I try to post and everything is gone. Well almost everything. All it says is "iRV2 is not responding."
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Old 08-22-2019, 06:16 AM   #5801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
Just spent about 30 minutes responding to some posts and when I tried to post it everything disappeared. Lost all that work!!! I hate when that happens and have to start again. I need to always save before trying to post.

I'll wait until tonight to respond. This is driving me crazy. I try to post and everything is gone. Well almost everything. All it says is "iRV2 is not responding."
Try the "back" arrow on your browser, sometimes the page you were working on is the cache and loads up, with all your hard work.
Feel your pain, been there, done that.
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Old 08-22-2019, 06:25 AM   #5802
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Wow, you just spent 1000 times more time reading the CHF posts then it would have taken you to do the CHF and take a 4 hour test drive and then put it back to normal, if you didn't like it.

Just do it and see what happens.


No oil leaks out of the differencial, the level is below the bolts you use. Look at the fill/check plug, its at the axle tube level.

If you need to remove the red locktite bolts, drive it an hour, that will heat the housing enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post
Woo hoo! I just finished reading every post on this subject since #1. Well, "fully read" most and skimmed a few. Took over a week.

I now understand the pros and cons but still need to decide what to do. We have the 2019 F53 22,000 lb. chassis with under a thousand miles on it, with 22.5" wheels. We did have a blue Safe-T-Plus added right from the start. We have the 242" wheelbase version.

It does "wallow" in turns and when hitting dips in the road on one side so I'm thinking the CHF while maintaining the original angle is the way to go.

It does not get pushed by semis very much. We'll feel a gentle nudge to the right as they come up on us and that's it. Easily controlled.

We have not noticed very much "tail wagging the dog" but do not have a lot of experience with driving it yet. We will be towing a 3,700 lb. car on a dolly soon.

Would a rear trac bar (proactively installed) help keep things stable?

The UltraTrac one looks good to me. When installing the rear trac bar bracket to the differential, is there ever any fluid leakage when so many bolts on one side get removed?

The UltraTrac instructions say to use Loctite Red and someone else mentioned they had a hard time removing the original bolts because they had "red" on them. The instructions say you may need to use 500-degree heat to remove bolts with Loctite Red.

How does using a blowtorch on a differential sound? Sounds "not good" to me but they also seem to make several products known as "red". https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/...tite-2620.html

One thing I have noticed while following the motorhome in a car is there is a LOT of bouncing of the rear when going over small bumps in the road. You cannot feel this while driving but it looks like it has no rear shocks. Is that normal?

EDIT: Changed "going over small bums in the road" to "going over small bumps in the road". I do not know how it would drive if I ran over some small bums.

Thanks,

Ray
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Old 08-22-2019, 06:35 AM   #5803
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Bounce in rear end

To take care of the bounce in the rear you may want to consider air bags. I have a set on mine that can go up to 100# air. I have played with the pressure and settled on 55# for the best feel in the ride. They also took away some of the harshness from the sway bar change. So for me it works.
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:54 AM   #5804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
No oil leaks out of the differencial, the level is below the bolts you use. Look at the fill/check plug, its at the axle tube level.

If you need to remove the red locktite bolts, drive it an hour, that will heat the housing enough.
Thanks!

Quote:
Wow, you just spent 1000 times more time reading the CHF posts then it would have taken you to do the CHF and take a 4 hour test drive and then put it back to normal, if you didn't like it. Just do it and see what happens.
I may have forgotten to mention that the motorhome is at the dealer for warranty work for the last week and a half, I was out of town visiting my kids who work during the day and I am of the personality type who needs to understand the whys and not just the whats because I really, really hate not being prepared for possible issues before and after...

It was a very interesting read and watching the progression of experiences gave me a better understanding:

- Just move the links. It takes a 15mm and an 18mm deep well socket, maybe wrenches of the same size and maybe an impact wrench or breaker bar. Unless you're in Alaska doing prohibited maintenance in a campground on your back. Then just use a crescent wrench.

- I hate that Ford uses "interference bolts". (I'd never heard of those before so I had to read up on them. It would have been very concerning to me if the bolts had not just spun out once they were loosened but now I know that's how "interference bolts" work.)

- Can't get one bolt in because the holes do not line up anymore. Use a bottle jack to force the bar up. You're off-level side-to-side, just level it with blocks and not the jacks. If the holes won't line up, put the bolt in the highest one first because it's easier to force the sway bar up than force it down. The jacks usually need to be retracted.

- The bolt now hits the springs. When installing the bolt try turning it 180 degrees and see if that will give it enough clearance.

- Got a clunk, what's the torque? (66 ft. lbs.)

- My rear sway bar runs under the differential. My rear sway bar runs above the differential. (It seemed that older units ran under and newer ones above but I am still unclear on this one.)

- The sway bar now hits the springs or differential and the tires come off the ground sooner when using the leveling jacks.

- The problem seems to be the change in the sway bar link angle. Need to get it back to where it was originally by making the sway bar links longer somehow.

- I used Hellwig adjustable links.

- Hellwig says their links are not for F53's, not strong enough. (Only one person seems to have actually asked Hellwig, though. Many people reported no issues using the Hellwig links over many years. Others reported premature bushing wear.)

- If you use Hellwig's adjustable links anyway, swap the bushings so the Ford OEM ones are used in the Hellwig links. Or drill the Hellwig's out. Or something else to make sure there is a tight fit. The Hellwig bushings may need trimmed a bit shorter.

- Just cut and extend the OEM links two or three inches.

- I have a "Z bracket". What do I do with it? Turn it around. Leave it off. (It seems the Z bracket was added for a few years to eliminate the clunk but then removed. Then it came back and seems to have splines now. Maybe.)

- My sway bar links have curves. (Seems to be on some 24K and 26K chassis's)

- I used Jeep Wrangler links because they're longer. (Do the Chrysler/Jeep sway bar links use precisely the same bushings as Ford F53 OEM links?)

- I decided to build some extension plates and retain the original links. (I have not seen what to use for bolts, washers and nuts to hold the plates to the sway bar.)

- I have no rear bushings left! Ford changed to polyurethane bushings in the 2012 model year and they are far more durable. You can buy replacements on ebay from an iRV2 member. Use a special poly lubricant, not petroleum-based. It's very sticky so use disposable gloves.

- My rear sway bar brackets fractured or the bolts fell out or the bracket is totally gone! (I have not read what the torque of the bracket-to-frame bolts is supposed to be. It seemed to be implied as 66 ft. lbs. as well. This seems to be a manufacturing defect on certain years whether it was insufficient torque or something else.)

- No one has reported a front bracket fracture, just rears.

- Rear CHF. If you extend the front links, put the front links on the rear because they're a bit longer. No, no need to change the rear links because the geometry doesn't change that much. I did the rear first and wow, a big difference. I did the rear second and not much of a difference.

- The ride is much harsher. The ride has not changed. (The semi-consensus seems to be that the ride can be harsher in certain conditions but for the vast majority of people the improved sway control far outweighs occasional harshness. Some people report the Koni FSD shocks helped out a lot for bad bridge joints, which are teeth-jarring for me at times.)

The "I added Koni's, Sumos. Roadmasters, a rear trac bar, steering stabilizer, air bags, etc." discussions were particularly interesting to me since I had read up on a lot of those. Seeing the comments in context to other changes was enlightening.

Did I get the nine-year summary complete?

Ray
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Old 08-22-2019, 11:06 AM   #5805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
Just spent about 30 minutes responding to some posts and when I tried to post it everything disappeared. Lost all that work!!! I hate when that happens and have to start again. I need to always save before trying to post.

I'll wait until tonight to respond. This is driving me crazy. I try to post and everything is gone. Well almost everything. All it says is "iRV2 is not responding."
I always do a Ctrl+A ("Select all") followed by a Ctrl+C ("Copy to clipboard") before hitting Post or Submit because of that experience. If you're not into using keyboard shortcuts, right-click in the editing window and use Select all and then Copy.

Warning: If you leave it all selected (highlighted) and you start typing, it all goes away. So click once in the editing window to clear the "Select all" or use Ctrl+V ("paste") or a right-click and Paste to get the text back.

And of course, if you get the "not responding" message you can use Paste to get the text back or to paste the text into Notepad for future edits.

Ray
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Old 08-22-2019, 12:29 PM   #5806
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Originally Posted by NXR View Post
EDIT: Changed "going over small bums in the road" to "going over small bumps in the road". I do not know how it would drive if I ran over some small bums.

Thanks,

Ray
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Old 08-22-2019, 05:07 PM   #5807
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NXR,

If you're worried about the BLUE lock tight don't. Just 8 - 10 seconds with a propane torch will soften it enough to remove.

The bolts holding the links to the SB are 12-mm.

Correct nobody has had any issues with the front SB brackets. My best guess is the difference in bracket width. The fronts are 2-1/2" wide and the rears are just over 1" wide. That may not be the cause but that's about the only difference. Ford does not seem to care why it is happening.

As of today nobody can prove to me the ride is harsher with the CHF. Can't seem to feel any increase in the so called harshness.
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Old 08-22-2019, 07:32 PM   #5808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post
EDIT: Changed "going over small bums in the road" to "going over small bumps in the road". I do not know how it would drive if I ran over some small bums.

Thanks,

Ray
Dang, and I just logged in to have some fun with that!

Well, off to something else now.


PS - you won't need a "blowtorch" to loosen Loctite Red 262. I've had great luck with an electric heat gun on high. If it has a nut, warm the nut. If it's a bolt buried into a substantial housing, then warm the head. A long breaker bar helps, but the impact wrench makes it much easier.
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Old 08-23-2019, 07:47 AM   #5809
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Yep you gotta watch out for those wild bums!!!

Last month myself and a friend had to remove his differential (DF) cover plate on his DANA 80 DF to check and see if the cover plate bolts went all the way into the DF where the gears and oil resided. We had to install 2 Heli-cools for 2 stripped cover plate bolts.

I've installed the coils before and was concerned about getting metal shavings into the DF gear and oil cavity. Pleased to report that NONE of the cover plate bolt holes go into the oil cavity.

I remember also reading about some oil leaking from around the cover plate bolt holes and the thought was the bolts went into the cavity. Well on this Dana 80 they didn't. I'll error on the side of caution and believe at least for myself that none of them go into the gear oil cavity.

The cover bolts repairs went well and he reports after a several thousand mile trip that all 4 TB cover bolts are secure and the TB is doing its job very well.

That should answer any concerns concerning gear oil leaking from the bolt holes.

Here's my report on the use of air bags (AB). We just finished our 2,000 mile trip to ME. My setup is working very well as far as filling and removing AB pressures. I bought a small 12-V air compressor (AC) and installed it under the hood. All 4 AB air lines are run up to one location under the hood. The schrader valves (fill valves) are located in one location and clearly marked as to position on the RV.

Why did I go to all this trouble with location? The AB instructions do briefly mention being careful when leveling your RV and one should remove all or most of the air. I did read that info but the message was not really that strong so I was careful but did ruin one AB when leveling in the driveway.

This is the second MR with AB's and I never had one issue with the first one. If the AB has air in it which can be from 10-lb to 100 and the wheels are lifted off the ground or even raised more than a few inches the air pressure can't escape and that will/may blow a bag or at least an airline.

To be on the safe side when we get to a CG I remove all the air from the bags. No sense in taking any chances. To re-fill and set pressures takes me about 2 minutes total. The key is just turned to the ACC position and the pressure setting it on 45 lbs. Each AB is fill to a pressure close to 25 FRONTs and 35 REARS. Then it's set to the two mentioned pressures.

I'm using those two pressures for this reason. I started at 35F & 55R and have gradually dropped them to 25 & 35. The volumen in the AB's is very small so just one check of AB pressures will lower the pressure 1/2 to 1 lb. With that I decided if the AB was going to soften the ride then the AB should be softer so I lowered the pressures.

So far so good and I'm pleased with the addition of AB and feel that the $650 was worth it. If anybody has any specific questions send me a PM and we'll exchange home e-mails and I'll send pics and give you other points of information that I've learned about where to get good quality air lines and brass connectors etc, etc.

I just reported the AB here because it was mentioned. We should keep this discussion about the CHF so maybe I'll start a new thread about Air Bags later!!.
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Old 08-23-2019, 09:00 AM   #5810
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I've installed the coils before and was concerned about getting metal shavings into the DF gear and oil cavity. Pleased to report that NONE of the cover plate bolt holes go into the oil cavity.
Thanks. I was more concerned that removing the bolts might cause leakage past whatever is used for a gasket or seal between the differential cover and the differential housing. Occasionally I've had a bolt catch on a cover or lid or whatever as it was coming out and peel the gasket loose. That sounds like a low probability for this.

Ray
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