Community Forums

Bob Hyatt · 05-01-2018, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F53Challenge

Bob, you are killing me and you are likely correct. Now I am crying in my coffee, later sobbing over my beer. "The standard measurement is to take the wheelbase, divide by overall coach length. If that is < .50 it is going to be undriveable." Where were you when Winnebago called to find out this secret information? By the way, where does this standard measurement come from?
Thank you.

I have seen this mentioned in hundreds of posts over the past few years. Has to do with "moment of inertia" and such. Imagine how a 36 footer would ride on a 10' wheelbase. One end or the other would be on the ground all the time, and it would gallop down the road. Go to the other end of the spectrum with a DP with a tag. Wheels are way out toward both ends and totally eliminate that for-aft galloping motion because the wheelbase is a major fraction of the total coach length.

There are some coaches made that should not be. Not pleasant to drive. And adding firmer shocks just makes 'em ride rougher. Sway bars only help side-to-side rocking, as does the CHF many like (without knowing exactly what that is doing to the rest of the frame/suspension).

I've not added anything to my 32SA and don't plan to do so. But I did try to make sure I understood the handling qualities before I bought it after reading all the thousands of horror stories on various fora like this one.

F53Challenge · 05-01-2018, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wa8yxm

The problem with LEAF SPRING SUSPENSION is you are not adjusting the wheel to stay straight.. you are zig zagging down teh highway.

Here is why

As you know the springs are designed to allow movement of the axle up and down a bit relative to the frame.. BUT. the thing they do not tell you is it lets the body move side to side over the axles.

So what happens if the "Tail" Wags right while the "Head" wags left?
You think you are moving to the left and compensate.. They they "Wag" the other way and again you now think you are going RIGHT so you compensate and again it WAGS the other way.. back and forth.

TRAC Bars also called pan-hard bars. Stop this wagging 100%, kill it dead

Next improvement
A steering stablizer. I suggest eitehr a BlueOx Tru Center or a Safe-t-Steer with the remote re-center option.

Helps keep you on the STRAIGHT, if not narrow.

wa8yxm, Thank you. I have trac bars front and rear as well as the Safe-t-Steer. I do not have the remote re-center option.

F53Challenge · 05-01-2018, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLS7201

Listen to what Waiter21 is saying. He is spot on. A "I" beam axle will not drive well with out some toe in. I still do an alignment once in a while, when the local alignment shop needs some extra help. There is NO way your toe in will change when you change the air pressure in your air bags.

Richard

RLS7201, I believe you are correct, There is no way toe in will change when you change the air pressure in the front air bags. I was just reading the printout from the alignment shop that stated the toe in had changed. Then with your comment I started to think about it more. Good catch. tks.

F53Challenge · 05-01-2018, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isa

When my 2000 Commander 3505GS was brand new i complained to the dealer that when driving down the road I was constantly moving the steering wheel to the left and then to the right. Dealer sent me to a wheel alignment specialist shop. There the mechanic found that my right front king pin was not moving freely but seizing up and then letting go, hence the constant shift of the steering wheel.

ISA, do you happen to know how the mechanic determined the king pin was not moving freely?

F53Challenge · 05-01-2018, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJowdy

As you've figured out, there's not enough weight on the front axle. You said you have air bags and have tired adjusting air pressure. Have you increased the the pressure in the rear and lowered the air pressure in the front? Another trick is to increase the caster angle on the front tires. I'd also make sure that you have a full alignment done (front and rear)

Aside from that, provided the alignment is correct I seriously doubt you'll solve the problem short of adding weight to the front end.

LJowdy, How does one calculate how much weight to add to the front? Thank you.

Hgrace56 · 05-01-2018, 02:15 PM

Find a qualified competent RV alignment shop.
I know of one in the San Fernando Valley.

LJowdy · 05-01-2018, 03:22 PM

I didn't mean adding lead to the front end. Not sure how you'd add weight other than reorganizing your cargo.

triplewide · 05-01-2018, 04:45 PM

I have never had this type issue after installing steering stabilizer, rear track bar and CHF. I have read in this forum that some have had success by adding weight to the front. One poster added jugs of water to the forward compartments and in the cab area. As I recall he added about 300 lbs and said it made a noticeable difference. Think he also tested with his holding tanks empty which were located toward the rear of the coach. He then removed the water jugs, moved heavier items from rear storage toward the front storage. In the end he also added some weight (iron) to the to the front axle.

F53Challenge · 05-01-2018, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJowdy

I didn't mean adding lead to the front end. Not sure how you'd add weight other than reorganizing your cargo.

LJowey, Thank you for the input. I like the idea of reorganizing the cargo and I'd like to do that, unfortunately, my SunStar 26P has unmovable items behind the rear axle, generator, all holding tanks, 80 gal fuel tank and one slide. Other items that have unfortunately have minimal weight, I have moved a bit closer to the front. I was thinking of adding a front receiver hitch and at least I could load some items I was bringing in front of the front axle. I have not found a front hitch for the F53. If anyone know of one, please let me know.

F53Challenge · 05-01-2018, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triplewide

I have never had this type issue after installing steering stabilizer, rear track bar and CHF. I have read in this forum that some have had success by adding weight to the front. One poster added jugs of water to the forward compartments and in the cab area. As I recall he added about 300 lbs and said it made a noticeable difference. Think he also tested with his holding tanks empty which were located toward the rear of the coach. He then removed the water jugs, moved heavier items from rear storage toward the front storage. In the end he also added some weight (iron) to the to the front axle.

triplewide, I also have read about adding weight to the front. So far it seems like a try and see vs a calculation. Check out this from Henderson's Lineup regarding some coaches that are too light in the front; "In some instances, we’ve added almost 1,000 lbs. to the front end. That’s a lot of steel, but it is still normally well below the front gross axle weight rating and tire ratings. We use steel plates, stacked together and bolted to the frame using hand-fabricated brackets."https://www.hendersonslineup.com/rut-tracking. I will continue to look for a calculation vs a try and see approach. Thanks for your input.

Bob Hyatt · 05-01-2018, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F53Challenge

triplewide, I also have read about adding weight to the front. So far it seems like a try and see vs a calculation. Check out this from Henderson's Lineup regarding some coaches that are too light in the front; "In some instances, we’ve added almost 1,000 lbs. to the front end. That’s a lot of steel, but it is still normally well below the front gross axle weight rating and tire ratings. We use steel plates, stacked together and bolted to the frame using hand-fabricated brackets."https://www.hendersonslineup.com/rut-tracking. I will continue to look for a calculation vs a try and see approach. Thanks for your input.

The real issue is that the manufacturer simply used the wrong chassis. None of this is changing that 50% number (ratio of wheelbase to overall coach length). The more you move forward to offset that really long rear overhang will help, but only help. Won't ever be "right". There are good places to save $$ when building a coach. This is not one of 'em... It is really amazing how much this one number affects handling...

F53Challenge · 05-01-2018, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Hyatt

The real issue is that the manufacturer simply used the wrong chassis. None of this is changing that 50% number (ratio of wheelbase to overall coach length). The more you move forward to offset that really long rear overhang will help, but only help. Won't ever be "right". There are good places to save $$ when building a coach. This is not one of 'em... It is really amazing how much this one number affects handling...

Hey Bob, while I don't want to cave, I think others input have been very helpful, having owned a Winnebago previously, I was thinking this one might be the right one for me. It appears the chassis wheel base is simply not long enough. I believe I will try some of the other suggestions in an effort to make my time in this coach a bit better. Shame on Winnebago. Thank you Bob.

Randalpho · 05-02-2018, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F53Challenge

ISA, do you happen to know how the mechanic determined the king pin was not moving freely?

Lift the wheels off the ground and remove both outer tie rods from the steering knuckles. The knuckles should move left to right smoothly and easily throughout the swing.

F53Challenge · 05-02-2018, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randalpho

Lift the wheels off the ground and remove both outer tie rods from the steering knuckles. The knuckles should move left to right smoothly and easily throughout the swing.

Randalpho, Wonderful. I made an appointment with a shop for this coming Monday to test the king pins, add more toe in, determine if lash is set optimally in the steering box and in general review all Suspension and steering components for proper adjustment, tightness and condition. Just wish Ford would show me where the crank is to lengthen the wheelbase. Thank you.