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Old 07-03-2019, 06:47 AM   #1
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F53 Shimmy/Vibration measuring tools

Hi.

I have an extended 2019 F53 Chassis under my 39 foot Newmar Canyon Star.

I am working to chase down a shimmy/vibration and measure the intensity at various speeds.

On a smooth road, it is first noticeable at about 35mph.
It intensifies more as you approach 50mph.
From mid 50s to mid 60s it is constant vibration through the steering wheel, pedal, dash and you can feel it all the way in the back of the unit.
The vibration is present up to 75 but is a much tighter cadence by then, so not so noticeable.

It occurs as you accelerate, coast down hills and decelerate on even ground. It is more noticeable as you coast down from the mid 60s and to mid 50's.


I am looking for an app or a DIY tool that can help me measure the level of vibration to document the intensity described above,

Can anyone recommend an app for that?

Thanks,

GW
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:59 PM   #2
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I had that issue on my 08 Bounder F-53 chassis with 19.5 steel rims, after buying all new rims my vibration went away.

This was a issues with 19.5 rims in certain years cause the rims were not built right and out of round..

Not sure what rims you have but have a good tire shop put them on a good balance machine and check each rim and tire for out of round..
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:12 PM   #3
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Simple search of App Store revealed this as a possibility (only has 9 ratings but they are all good). Price is right, suppose you could try it... Looks like there are others you could search for and wade through. Could also just try a bottle of water half full and note the differences in water movement you see at various speeds (examples of this on the WEB). So after you document the intensities, then what?:

IOS App Store Vibration Measurement
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:25 PM   #4
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Probably not the same issue but here's a recent thread about my 2019 Canyon Star vibrations.

2018 F-53 Differential Questions
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:32 PM   #5
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If it's not a wheel balancing issue I would have the u-joints on the drive shaft checked. Also if your drive shaft has a carrier bearing check it. Most likely on a 2019 I would think it would be more of a tire issue though. I think the concensus here will be find the problem not the app.
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Old 07-04-2019, 05:56 AM   #6
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I use https://apps.apple.com/us/app/vibration/id301097580

It allowed me to verify the vibration was wheels or tires instead of driveshaft or engine based on frequency.

Took it to Gator Ford and they used a real EVM to verify and then Roadforce balanced / indexed the wheel to fix the vibration with full report of each wheel
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Old 07-04-2019, 09:35 PM   #7
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Thanks JHarrell. That is a very useful app. I have used others, but this one seems to be the best fist for what I need.

Thanks Sedaliaterry. I have tried that app. In response to your question, I plan to document before and after vibration measures as improvements are made, as well as capture comparative data from rides in other similar configurations on F53 chassis motor homes. An app that shows the vibration intensity at various speeds is more scientific than me describing how my ride feels after each attempt at correcting the shimmy.

Thanks,

GW
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Old 09-21-2019, 12:39 AM   #8
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Shimmy Issue Resolved -- Bad Tires

I am just posting this as a follow up to let others know how the vibration/shimmy was resolved in hopes others can get to a solution faster than I did.

I worked with Newmar customer service, three Ford F53 service centers (balance/alignment/NVH), MoRryde (drive shaft balance) and four tire shops (Balance/RFB/Runout) over two months to chase down the shimmy during my first 3000 miles of ownership.

In the end, with persuasion from Newmar and a couple of really good tire shops, Michelin replaced all of the tires. First the four back ones, then the front two a couple weeks later. Newmar and Michelin covered all costs with no hesitation.

Because we assumed that balancing the tires took them out of the equation we started looking at other causes such as drive shaft and alignment. This was just chasing ghosts, because the cause was only the bad tires all along. Some were slightly out of spec (.045) but others were significant (.080). For the final two that were replaced I personally witnessed a wobble in the tread pattern on one and a distinct hop in the other. I could see as they were spinning on the balance machine exactly what I was feeling while driving for the past 3000 miles. I could not believe three tire shops had not caught this. Immediately after these last two tires were replaced it was a smooth and quite ride.

So my take away on this is if you have a shimmy, regardless of how many times you have had the tires balanced (six times for me), the issue is likely still the tires. When you have them balanced make sure to have them mechanically checked for lateral and radial run out. If someone says they are going to Road Force Balance the tires, be sure everyone knows what that means and how it is done properly to align the tire on the rim at the right place.

Most importantly, be there to witness and challenge what you see. Had I been wiser, and done this in the beginning, I would have resolved this issue well before 3000 miles.

Hope my pain helps others avoid it.

GW
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Old 09-21-2019, 06:11 AM   #9
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Great resolution to your issue. There have been many, many who suffered as much as you did if not more.

There was one who posted similar issues with similar dealer visits. It was also a brand new unit. Many of us came back to the same thing it was still probably tires. As you experienced, the tires had been balanced a number of times but in this case the dealers refused to go back to the tires. They basically said that 4 or 6 tire shops couldn't have done the balance incorrectly?

We suggested that a dealer take two front tires from a unit that did not vibrate and do a tire swap. He was told that was to costly to even try that idea. In fact several posters even said no dealer would ever do that. It sure would have narrowed the problem down easily and quickly.

That was a 9 month ordeal and the owner gave up and traded the unit before they fixed the issue. Consider yourself lucky that there were dealers who were concerned and wanted to fix the issue. Many times dealers do not want or even begin to listen to an owner. After all what do you possible know? You're just the owner!!!

Years ago we were heading on a long trip and the vehicle that we were going to drive was one my DW usually drove. I drove it and noticed a definite left rear wheel hub bearing noise. Took it to the dealer and explained my background experience trying not to sound over confident and mentioned that I think it's the left rear hub bearing. Well I was told by the service writer they never go bad and certainly not on a unit with less than 8,000 miles. The tech and I took it for a ride and his diagnosis was the same as mine and done before we even got out of the parking lot.

The service writer didn't say one word of apology didn't even acknowledge my presence when the tech told him what needed replaced. I didn't really care just wanted it fixed so we could head out.

That's only one of many stories I've experienced concerning service writers and their knowledge level when it came to diagnostics.
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Old 09-21-2019, 10:32 AM   #10
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Thanks TeJay.

During our chase to fix the shimmy, I read other's posts and sagas as you described and learned all I could. I agreed with your idea to simply swap wheels with a known good set. No doubt that would have zeroed in on my problem.

If you can stay and work with a dealer/rv service center that has wheel inventory to "borrow" for the day, I would start there. Because once you are on road, like we were, it is cycle of attempted fixes, misplaced confidence and a bunch of new ideas of what else could be wrong. It become a self perpetuating problem and it could have gone on for many months.

The good folks at Newmar Canyon Star Support were great to work. But they do not touch the chassis. They worked as our agent to get us on schedules at the Ford dealers and arranged tire and drive shaft specialists that did the work. They each felt our pain as they attempted to resolve the issue. But in the end Newmar could only make a logical guess of what to try next and send us there. And as you stated above---they were saying how could it still be the tires after all this balancing.

Had we been at our dealer's service center (Independence in Winter Garden) I have no doubt they would have been able to resolve this much faster for us with a simple wheel swap.
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Old 09-21-2019, 10:35 AM   #11
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Please OP could you provide the tire details so that others with similar problem could benefit?
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Old 09-21-2019, 12:32 PM   #12
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I always first hand look at the tire balancer to ensure no runout, no wobble and no weight required. Just did this on my Durango. I predicted the correct wheel and the amount of runout based on feel. The tech didn't catch it himself first, but then when I asked for him to spin the wheel...it was exactly what was communicated. Replaced the tire with a good used one (All Wheel Drive...) and all smooth in the world again.

The tire guy is the "C" technician in the service department. Not much experience.

Don't forget the F53 needs the wheels to be centered on the hub. Can take shims. There is a TSB that addresses this. The tire might look good on a balancer that has a conical hub, but the F53 does not so the wheel assy can be slightly offcenter and induce a hop.
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Old 09-21-2019, 06:53 PM   #13
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Hi Reacher,

Here is what my 2019 Canyon Star 3911 on the 26K F53 chassis came with new.

Michelin XRV 255/80R 22.5 tires.

Interestingly, my original tires were not from the same batch. Here is the mix of date codes:
Front: 2818 and 3918
Rear: 2918, 2918, 2818, 3018
DOT M5H6 AK3X

Hope that helps.

GW
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Old 09-21-2019, 07:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLWilliams58 View Post
Hi Reacher,

Here is what my 2019 Canyon Star 3911 on the 26K F53 chassis came with new.

Michelin XRV 255/80R 22.5 tires.

Interestingly, my original tires were not from the same batch. Here is the mix of date codes:
Front: 2818 and 3918
Rear: 2918, 2918, 2818, 3018
DOT M5H6 AK3X

Hope that helps.

GW

Yes it does help. Many thanks.
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