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Old 07-15-2019, 12:35 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by W.J. Demo View Post
It is definitely a 2019 chassis. I called Ford’s RV support line and spoke to a technical guy. He told me the 2019 F53 does not and was never intended to have Selectshift.
Well false advertising then. But Id still run the vin myself. I was surprised to find that not only was my chassis two years older than the coach, but also a 20500 and not the 18k chassis listed in all the Newmar specs from 2008 to around 2013. Its an odd-ball but I like it. Newmar specs for 2010 are mysteriously missing, but those were the lean years for RV builders.

In case you don't have this handy:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/vindecoder.php
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Old 07-15-2019, 02:14 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.Wold View Post
Well false advertising then. But Id still run the vin myself. I was surprised to find that not only was my chassis two years older than the coach, but also a 20500 and not the 18k chassis listed in all the Newmar specs from 2008 to around 2013. Its an odd-ball but I like it. Newmar specs for 2010 are mysteriously missing, but those were the lean years for RV builders.

In case you don't have this handy:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/vindecoder.php


I did the VIN lookup and it is a 2019. Beyond the F53 brochure pictured above, the rest of Ford documents are just as bad. My F53 owner’s manual is for a 2019 chassis and says the transmission is a 5-sped automatic and even has a picture of the gear selector showing the PRN321. The blue “Window Sticker” that came with my Ford package says 5-speed Automatic Transmission 5R110W in the top section and says 6-speed Automatic Transmission in the bottom section. I do have the 6-speed PRN4321. Enough to give a person a banging headache.
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:11 PM   #129
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One of the things that drive me crazy in a newer 5 speed tranny (F53 V10 and ‘13 Honda CR-V) is the lack of manual control of all 5 gears. Ford was gracious enough to give me D-3-2-1. What happened to 4th? After driving overdrive trannies with an OD-Lockout feature effectively giving me manual access to 4th, I was delighted to learn that 5-Star finally provided a tune that uses the Tow/Haul Mode to prevent shifting into 5th gear. Although not perfect, it goes a long, long way to improving drivability in situations where trans hunting occurs. Won’t pull 5th, but 4th will accelerate until it has to back off, allowing a shift back to 5th, which it can’t pull...... etc etc.

In a 22,000 GVWR rig with the aerodynamics of Fred’s barn door, it is silly for OEM to not allow the driver complete control over the 5 available gears (6 now). So yeah, understanding what 5-Star has done fits with my seat-of-the-pants experience. Overall, my F53 is much more drivable then the day it came off the lot.

Good info. Great discussion!!
I have been begging 5Star for a program change that engaged 4th gear when the tow haul was switched on; when did you get your 5Star system?
My 2012 F53 loves gear hunting, 5th to 3rd to 5,250 RPM, to 5th when under 61 MPH. In horrible Calif, with a 55 MPH speed limit when towing, 4th gear is not available when climbing Cajon, Grapevine, and Baker Passes. I found that NB Baker (at 62 or 63 MPH) with a gas peddle press to downshift to 4th gear and holding the paddle to the floor I can climb the pass at 45 to 55 MPH. Any lifting of the peddle slams back to 3rd and up to 5,250 RPM and the 3 to 5 to 3 circus starts again. My Scan Gauge MPG is 1.9 when WOT in 3rd and 2.9 on the same pass at WOT in 4th. That is why a way to manually lock the tranny in 4th at less than WOT is desperately needed/required in the Western USA.
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:45 PM   #130
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Thanks for the link, R.Wold.

Very informative breakdown of the vin #.

As I thought, my chassis is a 2018 while the model year of my Thor is 2019.

Says "trans order code 44p". Anyone know what that means?
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Old 07-15-2019, 05:03 PM   #131
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From Ford site with vin decoder:

SAE Net Horsepower @ RPM 320 @ 3900
SAE Net Torque @ RPM 460 @ 3000

Using Ford's numbers, looks like the sweet spot for this engine is between 3000 and 3900.

That is sure where she sounds the happiest.

Anything much over 4000 and she starts screaming for mercy.
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:02 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joes2901 View Post
I have been begging 5Star for a program change that engaged 4th gear when the tow haul was switched on; when did you get your 5Star system?
My 2012 F53 loves gear hunting, 5th to 3rd to 5,250 RPM, to 5th when under 61 MPH. In horrible Calif, with a 55 MPH speed limit when towing, 4th gear is not available when climbing Cajon, Grapevine, and Baker Passes. I found that NB Baker (at 62 or 63 MPH) with a gas peddle press to downshift to 4th gear and holding the paddle to the floor I can climb the pass at 45 to 55 MPH. Any lifting of the peddle slams back to 3rd and up to 5,250 RPM and the 3 to 5 to 3 circus starts again. My Scan Gauge MPG is 1.9 when WOT in 3rd and 2.9 on the same pass at WOT in 4th. That is why a way to manually lock the tranny in 4th at less than WOT is desperately needed/required in the Western USA.

2016 Bounder 35K Anniversary Addition on a 2015 Ford F53 w/ 5-speed 22K GVWR. (coming out of a 2003 Southwind with Workhorse 8.1L / Allison 5-speed (with OD Lockout!))


I bought my SCT tuner from 5 Star in 2016. While gaining some benefits in shifting schedule and power delivery, I was still very frustrated by the inability to lock 5th gear out. Living in far northern California (the 'real' Northern California--sorry Bay Area folks, but you are in "Central" California...) there is only one direction to go that does NOT entail mountain driving. I tried all manner of 'stabbing' the throttle to force a downshift to 4th, but most of the time just barely easing off the "opinion lever" to maintain speed would cause an up shift again... argh!.


I approached 5 Star about the concept of using Tow/Haul to restrict the tranny from upshifting to 5th, and didn't hear back from them. Summer of 2017, I was browsing 5 Star's web page, and...well... wouldn't you know, there were two options for the 87 Octane Daily/Tow tune. One normal, and one with 5th gear lockout. I jumped on that right away. (funny story... the first email lockout tune was programmed backwards... 5th locked out in Normal mode, ability to upshift in Tow/Haul mode. After much head scratching, I called 5 Star to find out if I was going goofy, and when he looked up my tune, he laughed and said "...opps, I added the feature on the wrong line of code... give me 20 minutes and I'll email you the correct tune." He did, and it works as expected)


So now, in many instances where 4th is the best sustained power/braking gear, I click the Tow/Haul button, lock out 5th, and ease on up the road while still having full access to locking in 3, 2, or 1 if needed with the shift lever. Mind you, Tow/Haul brings on other... ummm... 'benefits'(?) that, at times, just get in the way, but I've learned the work arounds needed to live with this setup. After installing the Lockout Tune, we immediately left for an 8,000 mile run to North Carolina and back, and the coach performed SO MUCH BETTER!



Now, having said all that, I just now was looking at 5 Star's web site and can find no mention of a 5th gear lockout tune for a 2015 F53. If I had to bet, I'd wager that the EPA/DOJ suit against Derive Systems got everybody's attention and there has been a mad scramble for compliance.
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Old 07-15-2019, 11:35 PM   #133
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Wow GMtech, Lots of incredible info in this thread. It makes a lot of sense to me, but then I've been in the field myself for close to 40 years too. I have an 09 E450 that I'd love to "adjust" for a bit better economy, but I just looked at a Banks Power Pack and damn near choked. Not sure we'll have this thing long enough to recover the cost.. Thanks for your time and efforts to educate us all



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Old 07-16-2019, 01:23 AM   #134
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walt embree,

Thanks for the information. I had emailed and called 5Star in early 2015 and had to gave up on them after my plea was unsatisfied. They became too busy with the new 2016 engine/6 speed tranny to care about those left with the 5 speed tranny. I failed to keep contacting them every month until they produced the version of the 87 tune you lucked into.

At least the 87 tune provided the fuel enrichment needed to stop the pinging and stumbling the engine had from a too lean fuel/air mixture as the RPM approached 5,000 RPM. It also enabled starting in 1st gear which is often necessary.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:13 AM   #135
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I thought this was interesting info. This is a 2018 chassis

Yes, fourth is indeed close to 1:1

"Trans Order Code 44P

Trans Type 6 6.0 min 6.0 max

Trans Description Cont. Automatic w/OD

First Gear Ratio (:1) 3.97 3.97 min 3.97 max

Second Gear Ratio (:1) 2.32 2.32 min 2.32 max

Third Gear Ratio (:1) 1.52 1.52 min 1.52 max

Fourth Gear Ratio (:1) 1.15 1.15 min 1.15 max

Fifth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.86 0.86 min 0.86 max

Sixth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.67 0.67 min 0.67 max"
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:27 AM   #136
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I use a ScanGauge II, which costs around $160 or so. It is NOT A TUNER! But...first of all, it will give you accurate coolant and transmission temps. Bear in mind the only true FORD gauge is the gas gauge. Ever wonder why temp and oil pressure NEVER MOVES? But the other important use is controlling shifting. There is a choice of displays and one tells you what % of power your engine is producing. I call it "LOD". Here's how I use it: as long as you keep that % reading BELOW 90-95%, it will NOT downshift. If you want to shift from 6th to 5th, you nudge the throttle slightly which will pull it back to 5th. As long as you then keep the % number 90-95, it will NOW hold 5th, and 5th is a very useful gear! BUT if you have Cruise Control ON, it will Not work well because it will frequently downshift TWO gears so quick it's out of your control...And tow/haul can be used but it doesn't change anything except making you wait longer to upshift once you crest the hill. Going down, it does downshift with brake application and useful for that. You will see that coolant and trans temps DO NOT CHANGE whether T/H is on or not. Hope this helps!
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:47 AM   #137
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I use a ScanGauge II......You will see that coolant and trans temps DO NOT CHANGE whether T/H is on or not.......
I've noticed the same thing. T/H mode does not seem to affect the engine coolant or transmission fluid temps.

The trans temp seems to run at about 200F. It will gain a few degrees when the engine is screaming.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:48 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by woodbender View Post
I thought this was interesting info. This is a 2018 chassis

Yes, fourth is indeed close to 1:1

"Trans Order Code 44P

Trans Type 6 6.0 min 6.0 max

Trans Description Cont. Automatic w/OD

First Gear Ratio (:1) 3.97 3.97 min 3.97 max

Second Gear Ratio (:1) 2.32 2.32 min 2.32 max

Third Gear Ratio (:1) 1.52 1.52 min 1.52 max

Fourth Gear Ratio (:1) 1.15 1.15 min 1.15 max

Fifth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.86 0.86 min 0.86 max

Sixth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.67 0.67 min 0.67 max"
5th is almost as close, what's you point ?
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:27 PM   #139
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Im aware of the introduction of the 3 valve in the F53, which as stated, is what Im driving. But the OP keeps mentioning his E series, which makes me wonder what he is referencing when he indicates “late model V10”.

Id also like to know what he thinks about the 5 Star 89 octane tune, and the differences between 2 valve and 3 valve motors and subsequent (if any) differences in tuning parameters. But these questions seem to have been studiously ignored.
I'm so sorry! I knew I was going to end up missing somebody's question!

I have not seen a 5 Star 89 octane tune. I've seen a 3 valve tune and it didn't look much different than the 2v tune, very conservative changes. The reason I'm trying to stick to commenting on "late model" 2V V10's is just like anybody, I only know what I know. I can state factual information on the '16 to '19 2V tunes because that's what I've personally loaded into my rig and logged, and also directly compared those tune files to stock myself.

Which again, your question could help us ALL learn more. I'm questioning my sanity here, but here's my idea...

If anyone in the SF Bay Area has an F53, E350 or E450 they want to let me "read out", I'd pass along what we learn from it here. Reading a stock or modified tune file takes about 4 minutes. It doesn't alter or effect the calibration files at all, it's just like scanning for codes basically. I'm not making ANY promises, but I might be able to do something for you too, we'll see. If nothing else, I can give you your own engine and trans calibration files on a USB stick so you can download the software (free) and look at them yourself.


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Old 07-17-2019, 12:06 AM   #140
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Thats a great offer - i just may take you up on it. What part of the BA? I grew up in Lafayette and go to SF every six months. I have a 2008 F53 (2010 Bay Star) and have both the 87 and 89 octane 5star tunes. Im also going to talk to them about a custom tune with an overdrive lockout tomorrow after reading one of the posts above. We’ll see what happens. The 87 tune didn't do much for me and Im kind of embarrassed to say that I haven't tried the 89 yet although Ive had plenty of opportunity and run 89 anyway. So thats next.
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