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Old 07-14-2019, 06:01 PM   #85
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Ford V10 Shift Points

First: this has been a fantastic read. Thanks very much.

So, my question is, "How does 5 Star (or any other aftermarket tune) affect shifting performance?"

How does shifting performance relate to the discussion about "tuning" in general?

OK, that was two questions...

Marshall
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Old 07-14-2019, 06:37 PM   #86
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Great thread. I loaded the 5 Star tune 6k miles ago and appreciate the difference
it has made. I have the 2015 5 spd and the difference in shift points is a blessing. At 65 mph I am turning 2250 rpms and am at 2500 at 75. Not much
difference in mpg but a much better driving experience for me. I don't have cruise control (never have used it in anything anyway) but the difference in pulling hills is night and day, and a lot quieter without it trying to downshift to 4k +. I am glad that I got the 5 Star, at the group rate too, which saved $100+. You can find that on IRV2 with a search.
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Old 07-14-2019, 06:44 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDX_Racer View Post
I've got a 2005-chassis Ford E450-based class C with the V10. I've got a Bluetooth OBD2 connector that feeds an iPhone app so I can primarily keep track of engine and transmission temps since I'm often pulling a trailer as well.

I'm going through this thread as I really want to know more about keeping this engine and trans going for a long time.

What are some things I can do to keep it going for another 100,000 miles?
Change the oil on schedule.
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Old 07-14-2019, 06:56 PM   #88
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I’m enjoying this. Thank you.

If I may, what changes might I ask 5 star to make in my software download that would be a both safe on the engine and make it wake up a bit?
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Old 07-14-2019, 07:44 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by 1ciderdog View Post
On mine it changed the shift points so it doesn't shift down at almost every freeway over crossing or small hill. I haven't notice an performance or fuel economy changes. Certainly nice that it's not shifting down to 4K rpm often.
I think all the hullabaloo was a smokescreen knocking Ford. IMO
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gmtec16450yz's to me says a GM Tech on the loose. IMHO
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Old 07-14-2019, 08:01 PM   #90
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Ford V10 Characteristics

Thank you GM TECH for one of the most astute posts on the V10 I have ever seen! I bought a Scangauge for my 2019 Entegra Esteem 30X (Jayco 30X clone) BEFORE it even CAME IN! The biggest reason was because of my '02 Excursion Diesel 7.3! Bought new, after about two days, I recognized that the gauges were phony...after pestering the dealer for a week, they finally asked what I wanted. "Gauges that WORK" I told them. Amazingly, they told me to buy the pillar mount and they would supply and install the gauges! And THEY DID!
So I can monitor coolant and trans temp on my RV. But it also gives me something I call "load" which reads out 0-100%. I THINK it's reading % Power although it may just be reading the TPS. But it brings me to my question: having NEVER heard of PE, I'm wondering if when it reads, say, 92%, would it be useful to set up and enter PE? If so,when would you suggest entering PE and not entering PE?
The greatest use I get from my gauge, however, is to control SHIFTING. If you keep the gauge at or below 95%, it won't shift down. To grab 5th, you just slightly nudge the throttle. Only ONE downshift. Then, it stays in 5th as long as you are still below 95%, and 5th is VERY USEFUL!
Sorry for the LOOONG POST...
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Old 07-14-2019, 08:10 PM   #91
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Of course but my post was already too long...I did forget to mention that I replaced the OE muffler with a long 3" core glass pack type muffler. And did I mention that the V10 sounds TERRIBLE!
So PLEASE tell us the GOOD STUFF!!!
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Old 07-14-2019, 09:07 PM   #92
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My brain actually hurts from trying to soak all this in!, (could be the wine we had at dinner LOL), I have a 2019 Jayco class C with a ford V10. The biggest complaint I have is watching the tach rev so high and the crazy transmission shifts it makes especially while towing and climbing. So should I bother to buy one of tune kits for it or just leave it stock? If so which one is best? Or is all this just a waste of money? I do not want to harm my engine either!
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Old 07-14-2019, 09:45 PM   #93
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Great thread! Answers many of my WTH moments.
Bottom line? 5 star?
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:01 PM   #94
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Ok, I am going to go way out on a limb here.
I purchased a 2012 33c bounder with a F53 chassis v10. The previous owner had a full Banks power pack installed on the unit. Headers intake etc. And programmed for best performance with the ottominder. I have found that the most comfortable rpm is between 3500 and 4200 when climbing hills. I have just come from bishop ca to reno nv on hwy 395 and there is a lot of hills and down hills to experiment on. I think that you are spot on about the rpm that a v10 is comfortable at.
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:43 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmtec16450yz View Post
On the characteristics of the Ford v10 engine...

1- It does NOT "like to rev". It is actually the most diesel-like of most any modern gas engine. There are actually many reasons (again, facts actually) why it SHOULDN'T be run much over 4k.

On what 5 Star tuning does and doesn't do on the late model Ford V10...

1- It WILL NOT get you any better gas mileage. The 87 octane tune (most common) does nothing to help engine efficiency and actually by poorly managing the Power Enrichment, it will use MORE fuel at WOT. (Wide Open Throttle.)

2- It WILL NOT give you any more power whatsoever outside of WOT. The tune simply makes the throttle open at a lower pedal percentage to give the illusion of increased power.

If you have honest questions and an open mind, feel free to ask them and I'll do my best to answer them with factual data.

I installed the 5-Star tune in my 2007 Winnebago Voyage 35L last month. The speed limiter parameter was shown as 85 MPH which is way higher than I ever plan to go. Their dyno tests show 42HP and 75 ft lb gain at max. Are you saying that this is false advertising?

Previously I quit using cruise control because moderate hills would cause the V10 to keep downshifting until the engine was over 4000 RPM and would not upshift until it exceeded 5000 (sometimes hitting 5200) This sound is very disconcerting to me since my previous Class A with 1 Chevy 454 would bother me when it hit 3000 RPM. Since the update the throttle response off the line is much better which could be due to the actual throttle opening sooner as you said although the RPM doesn't reflect this. During my 130 mile trip, taken since the tune update, the engine never exceeded 4000 RPM and I crested several hills at 5 MPH higher than previous trips over the same route.


Bob B.


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Old 07-14-2019, 10:49 PM   #96
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One of the things that drive me crazy in a newer 5 speed tranny (F53 V10 and Ď13 Honda CR-V) is the lack of manual control of all 5 gears. Ford was gracious enough to give me D-3-2-1. What happened to 4th? After driving overdrive trannies with an OD-Lockout feature effectively giving me manual access to 4th, I was delighted to learn that 5-Star finally provided a tune that uses the Tow/Haul Mode to prevent shifting into 5th gear. Although not perfect, it goes a long, long way to improving drivability in situations where trans hunting occurs. Wonít pull 5th, but 4th will accelerate until it has to back off, allowing a shift back to 5th, which it canít pull...... etc etc.

In a 22,000 GVWR rig with the aerodynamics of Fredís barn door, it is silly for OEM to not allow the driver complete control over the 5 available gears (6 now). So yeah, understanding what 5-Star has done fits with my seat-of-the-pants experience. Overall, my F53 is much more drivable then the day it came off the lot.

Good info. Great discussion!!
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Old 07-14-2019, 11:03 PM   #97
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I learned long ago that my 1999 V10 likes to rev, it's plain to me. It revs much higher than the V8s I have owned, it has no red line on the tach and it easily revs to 4500 rpm on downshifts, obviously Ford is not too worried about me running at that rpm. From all that I think it's reasonable to conclude that 'it loves to rev'. I flog this engine up and down every mountain range from CO to CA. I've driven it repeatedly to the top of the road at Mt Shasta, to the top of the Bristlecone Pine Forest, over Wolf Pass, all these 10-12k ft and towing a Subaru while wailing the engine at 4500 rpm if that's what it takes to maintain a continuous speed. We just drove from Flagstaff to Mammoth Lakes through Vegas and Death Valley and the Panamints in temps of 104 to 114 and it ran flawlessly. I did have the wife drive the Subaru toad over the highest passes due to the temperatures and the fact that we were heavily loaded, that was a sound idea, I made much better time up the hills and never saw a hint of overheating. This is the original V10 with a three speed plus OD tranny , not the greatest but it's sufficient. I love to put the cruise control on and pump the + button on long grades so I don't have to stress with my foot jammed down on the pedal but sometimes I use my foot, I assure you from my experience there is no discernible difference between my foot and the CC in power, speed or rpms.



Bottom line is I am fairly impressed with the performance and durability of this engine, which I have been driving for 11 years now. I see no need to buy a new RV when this one runs like a champ and I can beat the hell out of it boondocking in federal lands across the US and up and down Baja. This engine is the least of my worries in our full time travels, the only complaint I have is the faulty air intake system that will suck up water under full power loads, learned that the hard way.
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Old 07-15-2019, 12:15 AM   #98
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This is the post where I bare my soul. haha.

Yikes! What have I done? Now I have more questions than I can answer! Now MY head hurts. lol.

So here's where I bare my soul...This is a tough situation for me actually. Here's where I'm coming from on all of this...

I've spent a year and a half and 16k miles logging, reading the data in those logs, building tune calibration files, logging, reading, tuning, over and over and over. I've built an amazing set of engine and transmission calibrations that are pretty far away from what Ford did in their calibrations. The throttle response follows pedal position far better than stock, the power is increased everywhere and the gas mileage is improved. On the trans, torque converter clutch operation is optimized, shift scheduling is spot on, shift times/pressures/TM are also dead on. It does what it's supposed to do when it's supposed to do it.

So here's the problem- What do I do with this? I've spent my entire 4 decade career making engines run better. Aside from my GM dealership job, I've done tuning work for race teams, built engines for race teams, and even worked on an Indy 500 pit crew. I've taught people how to "tune" engines, and helped literally hundreds of people across the country modify their own engines/transmission and tunes. But there's one thing I REALLY try to stay away from, that's tuning for private parties. In other words, I am capable of building any one of you a tune that works way better than what's available out there, but I have no interest in doing that as a business.

So I came on here simply to share what I've learned, nothing else. I have no ulterior motives, I'm not here to sell anything, and I'm not here to hurt any other "tuners" or aftermarket tune company's business. I just figured I'd clear up some misconceptions with what I know to be factual statements.

So honestly, how do I help you guys? I can have you tell 5 Star some things you want changed in your tune, but I don't believe they know how, or would be willing to do them. The Ford ECM is capable of what's called "lean cruise". Lean cruise can/does increase fuel mileage. Can they make the changes necessary to make it work? I'm kind of doubtful. PE should be tied to load instead of pedal position. Do they know how to do that? It's not done in their tunes, I know that. In the stock calibrations there is a pretty significant hesitation when getting back on the throttle after a freeway cruise decel. I eliminated that hesitation. It's still in the aftermarket tunes I've seen, so do they know how to eliminate it or not? I suspect they don't, but I really have no idea. How about ignition timing? You can tell them you want more, but do they have any idea how much is still safe? Idk. I do know that of the 50 something tables in the ignition timing section of the calibration, not a single change from stock was made in 5 Star's 87 octane tune. (Really? NO changes to ignition timing, one of the easiest places in a tune to find free power?) Those are just a few things that I know can be improved upon in the stock tunes and aren't done in the aftermarket tunes I've seen either.

So for you guys that have asked if you should buy an aftermarket tune, what am I supposed to say? I guess this is my answer- It sounds to me that there are a whole lot of people that are happy with their aftermarket tune. Is it better than stock? On the trans shifting most say it is. Can these engines and transmissions be made to work even better than the currently available aftermarket tuning? I can honestly say yes, they absolutely can. But that ability isn't for sale, only the theories behind it are being shared, with nothing asked for in return.

Does that help explain my frustration? Basically I can tell you what's right and wrong with the stock calibrations, and what the aftermarket tuning limitations are, but I can't give you a better solution. That's why I've said to you guys that are happy with your aftermarket (or stock) tuning that I'm glad and that this thread probably isn't for you, it's because I don't have anything I can give you that will be any better.
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