Ford Chassis rear seal leak

[BFlinn181]

Originally Posted by OLYLEN

I had new brakes with rotors and calipers on my C, the rear ends should be very similar, Cost $750 total. Now if they are in that far cost shouldn't be too much more for a seal. Don't think I would play around with oiled brakes. I would get a second option, that price seems way out there. Post location and someone can give a recommendation.

LEN

A Class C is built on a cutaway van chassis. The largest van chassis, the E450, has an outside rear track of 77" on 16" tires. An F53 has a rear track of 95" and is on 22.5" tires.

The differences between a cutaway van chassis and a full-on F53 truck chassis also means increased prices for parts and labor. It's really no comparison. I have a diesel VW, but I wouldn't compare labor and parts to my Cummins 5.9 in my RV.

[TeJay]

Diagnosis is not about guessing that I'll agree to. Diagnosis is determining exactly which fluid is leaking and the OP only said that it was a leaking seal. He did not say if they pointed out to him where or what was leaking. Then he reported that the brakes pads were oil soaked.

No flames to Quincy but oil that soaks into brake linings is detrimental to their ability to stop. Over the last 20 or so years pad material has undergone constant changes in response to vehicle weight changes and other governmental distance stopping requirements.

I don't know how or if all these changes have changed the ability of lining material to not be effected by oils or brake fluids.

I'll assume that they will negatively effect the coefficient of friction which is the prime indicator of a brake lining and rotors ability to generate sufficient heat to stop the vehicle. If the effect is 2% or 10%or 50% that's just what it is.

Every owner presented with brake issues needs to understand that any compromise reached less that 100% repair can and will effect the ability of the brakes to do their job as effectively as they were intended.

I make these comments because I recognize just how little most really know about brakes and how they work.

Here's a question for all to ponder and answer if you wish.

If you have a complete front brake job performed at a reputable shop and they used all OEM parts as you make your way back home will your brakes efficiency be at:

1. 100%
2. 80%
3. 60%
4. NONE of the above???

Please explain your answer and I'll post my answer tomorrow morning.

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by TeJay

Diagnosis is not about guessing that I'll agree to. Diagnosis is determining exactly which fluid is leaking and the OP only said that it was a leaking seal. He did not say if they pointed out to him where or what was leaking. Then he reported that the brakes pads were oil soaked.

No flames to Quincy but oil that soaks into brake linings is detrimental to their ability to stop. Over the last 20 or so years pad material has undergone constant changes in response to vehicle weight changes and other governmental distance stopping requirements.

I don't know how or if all these changes have changed the ability of lining material to not be effected by oils or brake fluids.

I'll assume that they will negatively effect the coefficient of friction which is the prime indicator of a brake lining and rotors ability to generate sufficient heat to stop the vehicle. If the effect is 2% or 10%or 50% that's just what it is.

Every owner presented with brake issues needs to understand that any compromise reached less that 100% repair can and will effect the ability of the brakes to do their job as effectively as they were intended.

I make these comments because I recognize just how little most really know about brakes and how they work.

Here's a question for all to ponder and answer if you wish.

If you have a complete front brake job performed at a reputable shop and they used all OEM parts as you make your way back home will your brakes efficiency be at:

1. 100%
2. 80%
3. 60%
4. NONE of the above???

Please explain your answer and I'll post my answer tomorrow morning.

I suppose that depends on the condition of the rear brakes, since the do better then 50% of the braking.

I never was any good in the classroom, I spent my time fixing this stuff.

[JIMBO34PA]

Originally Posted by Dorsal

I have a 2015 Tiffin 35QBA motorhome (Ford Chassis). After just 12,000 miles the left rear wheel seal starting leaking. The 36 month warranty with Ford had just run out. Has anyone else had this problem?? My service guy in Las Vegas said it is a common problem. Hard to believe after only 12,000 miles this could happen. I will be talking to Ford.

tell your dealer check warranty coverage guide rear axle seals/bearings 5/60 powertrain!

[BFlinn181]

Originally Posted by twinboat

I suppose that depends on the condition of the rear brakes, since the do better then 50% of the braking.

I never was any good in the classroom, I spent my time fixing this stuff.

No, front brakes on a vehicle do at least 70% of the braking effort.
https://www.drivingtests.co.nz/roadc...-the-front-wh/

I'll let others ponder Tejay's question, I know the answer but want others to figure it out!

Brake shoes/pads are cheap enough for what they do for safety I'd never leave a brake lining soaked in oil or any contaminant to remain.

[twinboat]

Your quoting a motorbike source ? Well that makes sense.

I spent many years adjusting and replacing brakes on large 6 and 10 wheel vehicles. The rear always wore out before the front, ask any over the road driver.

I agree that motorscooters and cars will wear 70 / 30 to the front but not MHs with more weight on the rear axle.

The brakes are the same size or larger on the rear for that reason. Look at a DP, their rear brakes are twice the size of the front.

[BFlinn181]

Originally Posted by twinboat

Your quoting a motorbike source ? Well that makes sense.

I spent many years adjusting and replacing brakes on large 6 and 10 wheel vehicles. The rear always wore out before the front, ask any over the road driver.

I agree that motorscooters and cars will wear 70 / 30 to the front but not MHs with more weight on the rear axle.

The brakes are the same size or larger on the rear for that reason. Look at a DP, their rear brakes are twice the size of the front.

If you do a search, you'll find the same answer for most all cars, pickups, and vans. Yes, an RV has a longer wheelbase, but still it's never biased to the rear axle doing the majority of the braking.

Braking on the front axle of large trucks didn't used to be required before the mid-'70's, but automatic slack-adjusters and brake proportioning valves made brakes on all axles mandatory. Insurance liability made it a requirement for most trucking firms and many 'kits' were sold and installed to make all axles have brakes.

[TeJay]

Bob has a great deal more experience in the heavy truck repair field and he is correct! My primary experience is on light cars/trucks. Starting in 1971 and up to the mid 2000 all vehicles that we worked on had brake pressures on front and rear in ranges from 70-30, 80-20, and even some at 90-10. When braking the weight shifts towards the front wheels hence the difference. Heavy trucks because of hauling freight and greater capacities did it differently.

Our brake work was always based on these miles. Fronts wear out twice as fast as the rears. Fronts got around 35,000 to 40,000 miles and the rears just about double.

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by BFlinn181

If you do a search, you'll find the same answer for most all cars, pickups, and vans. Yes, an RV has a longer wheelbase, but still it's never biased to the rear axle doing the majority of the braking.

Braking on the front axle of large trucks didn't used to be required before the mid-'70's, but automatic slack-adjusters and brake proportioning valves made brakes on all axles mandatory. Insurance liability made it a requirement for most trucking firms and many 'kits' were sold and installed to make all axles have brakes.

If the front brakes did all of the work, the front tires would lock and send you in a spin, in a hard stop. Pre ABS, anyway. Thats why old, air brake, trucks had front brake limit switchs, marked Wet and Dry Road.

We're not talking cars, pickups or vans, although the higher capacity pickups and vans have larger rear brakes. They need them if loaded heavy.

Wheelbase has nothing to do with it, its how the the weight is distributed. If the front brakes did 70% of the stopping, the rig would nose dive and wear the front tires off in months. Your 70% theory has you dumping 28,000 lbs, of a 40,000 lbs MH on the front axle and brakes. Get you infrared guns out boys.

Even my rust bucket 1988 F150 had a proportining valve on the rear brake line tee. The more the truck squat, the more the valve opened and more rear brakes were applied.

I could go on, but if you never did extensive brake work and are not certified in air brake service and repair, I don't suppose I will change your mind.

[OLYLEN]

Guess I have the 1 in a million van as it has the 95" track and I think the same rear end only with the 16" tires. Yes they need to pull the axle and clean up the parts and reassemble but give them another 2 hours labor at $100 an hour, they are supposed to be pro's not back yard learning. With power tools and a clean shop this goes fairly fast.

LEN

[TeJay]

ANSWER TO THE QUESTION ON POST # 16 IS: None of the above. WHY???

Before a set of new pads and properly machined rotors are at 100% breaking efficiency they must be properly BURNISHED!!! Burnishing, (breaking or wearing in) requires a procedure something like this.

Get the vehicle up to about 40-45 MPH and apply moderate pressure to the breaks until it slows to about 20 MPH. Accelerate back up to the 40 MPH speed and drive it for about 1-2 minutes to for proper cooling everything. Then repeat this process.

The burnishing process is not complete until about 200 stops like the above are completed.

During this burnishing process pad material will transfer onto the the rotor. That is the precise reason WHY all rotors much be machined. First it remove the glaze or smooth shiny surface on the rotor and second it removes the old pad material that was transferred and embedded into the rotors.

Pad material is in a fairly constant change (improvement) and I'm sure it's different from brand to brand so getting rid of the GLAZE and old pad material is essential for new burnishing to be proper. That glaze is smooth so how can it provide a rough surface to create friction???

At the end of the burnishing process the system will generate proper friction to stop the vehicle and meet the DOT stopping distances standards for that vehicle.

Avoid any panic stops which will cause the brakes to heat up and smoke. Excessive heating is not healthy for the life of the pad material. This is especially true if proper burnishing has not taken place.

I'm not naive enough to believe for a minute that any technician or person will do that exact burnish process. However prudent driving for several weeks following a brake pad replacement should take care of the burnish process in the normal course of driving. Just about any trip through town should give you 20 to 40 starts and stops. After 2-3 weeks of normal driving you're there. That's probably why most don't make a bid deal out of it but I thought it's best when teaching kids to understand the entire process and why.

If you have to do the panic stop then you will as needed. That can't be helped.

I was explaining this process to some TT guys. One guy responded with this comment. " I don't do any of that. I just take it out get up to 60 MPH and hit the brakes hard until they start smoking. They are broken in!!!"

I schooled all my student to explain to the customer the importance of avoiding the panic stop unless necessary. And not to expect proper breaking until 3-5 weeks of driving.

These standards and information are from a DOT book on the procedures all vehicles have to go through and pass before being approved by the DOT for full production.

twinboat, To answer your question: If you just had the fronts done the question only pertains on the fronts. The rears are already burnished and therefore will already be up to their full stopping efficiency.

Enjoyed sharing and drive safe!!!!

[Quincy]

Originally Posted by twinboat

Your quoting a motorbike source ? Well that makes sense.

I spent many years adjusting and replacing brakes on large 6 and 10 wheel vehicles. The rear always wore out before the front, ask any over the road driver.

I agree that motorscooters and cars will wear 70 / 30 to the front but not MHs with more weight on the rear axle.

The brakes are the same size or larger on the rear for that reason. Look at a DP, their rear brakes are twice the size of the front.

X2 TB the 70% rule for cars is mostly because most of the weight is in front. For DP's it should be a bit different.

[Quincy]

When I was seven or eight I used to go to work with my uncle who ran a mechanics shop. All of this "break in" s tuff for brakes and Winter and Summer oil change. Along with other procedures for break in periods were popular then. I seriously doubt they apply as much as they used too. Millions of cars on the road and I would bet that only a hand full of owners have ever thought to break in anything. There is no break in oil any more or anything like that. People just dont or wont do it so technology had to fill the gap. Which I am sure it did.

[twinboat]

Your actual braking effecency will be 100% as soon as you use them.

Since the introduction of ABS, OEM brakes pads are designed to be over 100% effecent. The tires condition and road surface are the only things that effects stopping power.