Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE CHASSIS CLUB FORUMS > Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-10-2015, 12:42 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 47
Ford V-10 lawsuit?

I have an 1999 Rexhall Aerbus with a Ford V10 chassis. I know that there is a class action lawsuit against Ford for the spark plugs popping out of the head, after 70,000 miles.

Does anyone know a way to prevent this from happening?

Jim
JBHERMANN is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-10-2015, 01:15 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 7,297
There are a number of threads devoted to this topic on this forum. I don't remember the years but I do know what caused it. The number of threads for the spark plugs in the aluminum head were only 2-3. Some plugs did blow out but were easily fixed with minimal effort using a helicoil repair kit. Ford did fix this with newer designed heads with more threads and no issues with it now.

In all the reading I did on the threads I never hear of a law suit. Ford admitted the problem and fixed it when it happened. I think a trip to a decent Ford truck RV repair facility and a conversation with the service manager would be in order. Since they know if the problem I'm sure they can advise you on what course of action you or they would like to take with it.

If you are trying to get them to fix the heads without you having an issue I don't know if that will happen. Maybe it's worth a try.

You could also Google the phrase and find a ton of info about it and how it was fixed and addressed.

TeJay
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
TeJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2015, 04:12 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Chicago Metro
Posts: 3,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBHERMANN View Post
I have an 1999 Rexhall Aerbus with a Ford V10 chassis. I know that there is a class action lawsuit against Ford for the spark plugs popping out of the head, after 70,000 miles.

Does anyone know a way to prevent this from happening?

Jim
to which are you referring...the lawsuit or the popping plugs? sorry, couldn't resist.

I hadn't heard about the lawsuit but I'd be interested as we had a plug pop on our V10 in 2011 at just shy of 78,000 miles. that repair ran us nearly $600 but no trouble afterwards. we traded that MH a few months back at just shy of 89,000 miles.
__________________
Rich, Ham Radio, Sport Pilot
Retired 9-1-1 Admin.
rk911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2015, 04:34 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 35,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by rk911 View Post
to which are you referring...the lawsuit or the popping plugs? sorry, couldn't resist.

I hadn't heard about the lawsuit but I'd be interested as we had a plug pop on our V10 in 2011 at just shy of 78,000 miles. that repair ran us nearly $600 but no trouble afterwards. we traded that MH a few months back at just shy of 89,000 miles.
What year engine and were the plugs original ?
twinboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2015, 05:09 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Chicago Metro
Posts: 3,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
What year engine and were the plugs original ?
a 2000 Itscasa Suncruiser. that was the coach model year, not sure about the chassis. and no, those were not original plugs. the plug that blew had been in service only for a short time...less than 6-months and a bit more than 4000-miles.
__________________
Rich, Ham Radio, Sport Pilot
Retired 9-1-1 Admin.
rk911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2015, 05:26 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 35,349
I ask because I have a 1999 V10.

From what I have read, the plugs blew out due to failure to install replacements properly.

If the installer did not follow Ford's specs on torque the plugs could blow out.

I think the 70000 mile plug blowout may be due to owners having the plugs replaced around that mileage.

To the OP,

Find and follow Ford's recommendations for plug replacement. If having a shop do it, make sure they know how to do it.
twinboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2015, 05:31 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 8,055
A quick look did not turn up any legal settlement over the plugs. AFAIK the problem cropped up a lot earlier in the trucking industry simply because they drive more miles a year.

Ford blamed heavy handed technicians but stepped up to the plate with a repair procedure and kit that could be done with the engine in the vehicle. Given the 100,000 mile recommended change interval there may be MH's that are still using the original plugs. If I still had one of them I would be looking for an experienced shop to to the plug change. One that figured out pulling the plugs at 70,000 was not a good idea. ;-)
nothermark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2015, 05:37 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,886
Quote:
Originally Posted by rk911 View Post
a 2000 Itscasa Suncruiser. that was the coach model year, not sure about the chassis. and no, those were not original plugs. the plug that blew had been in service only for a short time...less than 6-months and a bit more than 4000-miles.
Removing and re-installing the plugs on these requires some precision - mainly in getting them out (let them soak overnight) and putting them back (install by hand, torque to exact specs). My guess is that most failures are due to someone that treats them like every other spark plug install...
cb1000rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2015, 06:47 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,357
I put over 75000 miles on my 99 f-53 v10 with no issue. I did replace the plugs at 60,000 - very carefully. That said plenty of others had issues. As far as I know I don't think Ford ever covered an out of warranty repair.
__________________
2014 Southwind 32VS
2013 Nissan Xterra PRO-4X
PbdBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2015, 08:13 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 7,297
I've heard two different idea on these plugs. A service manager from Ford told me to never remove those plugs when the engine was hot. Then I also heard from a technician on these forums who is a Ford Tech tell me to always remove them when hot.

Here's what I've done. R&R the plugs when new or fairly new and put some recommended thread anti-cease compound on them to prevent the electrolysis that does/will occur around the steel plug threads and the aluminum cylinder head threads. And then of course apply the correct torque which is very low compared to most other nuts and bolts.

The service manual for the 2009 3-V engine lists the plug torque at 106 INCH LBS (9 FT LBS). I have written down in my manual for the RV to use 12 ft/lbs.

How many folks doing this job at home are going to use a good inch lb torque wrench? How many even have a good inch lb torque wrench? How many are actually going to believe that a spark plug will stay in when torqued to only 9 FT/LBS? How many will probably torque it to more than 9 FT/LBS??

If the engine manufacturers didn't think 9 would actually work or it was not important to get the torque exactly at 9 they'd list a range like 9-15. But no they list a very specific torque spec so that's where they determined that it should be set for correct installation.

The previous information is also true for some techs who are doing this job at the dealers.

Another issue with almost all torque wrenches. Unless you have a good TW that is calibrated properly TW's are not very accurate at the low or high end of their range. So if you don't have a good inch lb TW and grab the FT/LB TW that goes from 0 to 100 and try to torque at 9 your chances for any accuracy are slim to none.

I'll also assume that in 2009 the heads had been fixed to avoid this plug issue.

The plug that blew out at 70,000 miles only had 4,000 on it. It is my educated guess based on previous information that it had to have been installed incorrectly.

Consider the change in bolts used to hold together today's aluminum engines and why they changed. Todya's engine use TTY or (Torque To Yield) bolts. Google the term it's a good read. What are they and why??

If a bolt is going to clamp parts properly it MUST be stretched some. When a standard bolt is torqued we never, never, never take the bolt to or past its elastic limit or the limit where the bolt will stretch so far that when loosened it won't assume its original length. That's why we can use them over, and over and over.

If you know what you are doing you can actually torque bolts accurately by measuring with a dial indicator how much each bolt is stretched.

Because there are so many variables (dirt, lube on threads, operator of TW) when using a standard bolt accurate torque or clamping force is all over the charts. To keep these aluminum engine together they needed a way to more accurately and consistently torque the engines together.

A TTY bolt when installed properly actually stretches beyond its elastic limit. When that is done because of the metal make up of the bolt each bolt will then apply the exact same clamping force. That's part of the reason we can get so many miles on these engines. It also virtually eliminates inaccurate TW's and lousy techs who choose not to follow correct torquing procedures or torque specifications. The downside is the bolts must be replaced with new ones every time. That adds to the cost of rebuilding the motors. Also the techs must follow very strict DE-torquing procedures when R&R any aluminum part on an engine.

TeJay
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
TeJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2015, 08:55 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,357
The problem was addressed with a redesign of the head around 2003 if I recall. The problem is that the plug sits deep into a recess. The threads are at the bottom of the recess but the sealing chamfer on the plug is at the top probably at least a 1/2" from the threads and there are very few threads holding the plug in the head. It amazes me to this day that Ford got away without a recall. If you change the plugs you need to make sure the area is very clean. Blow out the well with compressed air before you remove the old plug. Then as Tejay mentioned install the new plug using anti-seize and a good torque wrench. This won't totally eliminate the possibility of a failure but it will go a long way towards minimizing the chance of a blowout. I carried a temporary block off plug all the years I owned my 99' and fortunately never needed it but if you want peace of mind they are available.

Emergency Plug Kit
__________________
2014 Southwind 32VS
2013 Nissan Xterra PRO-4X
PbdBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2015, 09:45 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 35,349
My understanding is that with the redesign in 03, they also started using 2 or 3 piece plugs. They were shearing off during removal, leaving the threads in the head.

I believe they finally got it right by 2005 or 6.

Not sure if it was with the 2 or 3 valve engines. The 2 valve was and may still be used in the E series chassis. The 3 valve heads were too wide.

Although everyone has their way to do plugs, the best advice, in this case, is to do exactly what Ford recommends to do, on YOUR particular engine. Nothing more or less.
twinboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2015, 10:22 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 7,297
Hi, I don't want my misinformation on this or any thread. I just got back from the Ford dealer. I spoke with the SM and their lead tech. Here's some new info.

From about 1999 to around 2007 or 2008 the coils will have a BLACK rubber cover. Those plugs will need to be removed with the engine HOT, HOT. The tech said he gets them boiling hot. He said he's done literally thousands of plug changes and once he began following this procedure he's had few if any issues.

In about 2008 to 2009 they started using a BROWN coil rubber cover. Those will need to be removed with the engine cold or at least cool.

The anti-seize compound was Fords fix but it was had little to no positive effect.

I was in a bit of a hurry and didn't ask about plug torques. I will in due time and will report on that as well.

I have CD's from 09 thru 2015 but my latest CD's have timed out so I don't have any specs above 2009. They started putting a time out feature on CD's after 2011.

TeJay
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
TeJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2015, 10:45 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
IdahoSRT10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 715
More if an issue is the plug center electrode braking off inside the cylinder. (two piece plug) Mid/end 2008 Ford changed to a one piece plug. If you have the Black Boot under the COP you have the 2 piece plug design. Brown Boot means you have the one piece plug. The newer one piece can and should be used when replacing the plugs.
A "plated" plug is recommended and use VERY little if any Neverseize to get proper torque.
There is a year specific Ford TSB on the proper procedures for changing the plugs.
I have done a few if these plugs replacements and it took me 2 hours under a 24 hour period.
__________________
2016 Thor Tuscany 34ST XTE, Freightliner XCR, ISB 360hp/800tq. Allison 3000, Koni FSD shocks, Roadmaster 1.75" front sway bar, Safe-T-Plus, DYI air bag flow control valves.
2015 Jeep Willy's Wheeler Wrangler Unlimited Toad, Ready-Brute-Elite tow system.
IdahoSRT10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ford



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
460 Ford Chassis - new carburetor needed neruda6 Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum 2 07-19-2015 07:15 AM
2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid flat towing issues. tmaxx Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 1 06-15-2015 11:07 AM
Ford F-53 Suspension/Steering issues 2003 evvvvv Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum 9 09-13-2014 05:32 AM
2004 Ford Explorer mmerilloverv Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 8 03-31-2014 07:48 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.