Ford won't fix the 6speed trans problem...

[Mike and Cha]

Originally Posted by alvo

You aren't specific enough in your description of the problem for anyone reading the comments to be able to determine if it's an isolated case or, as you assert, one of hundreds and people don't know theirs is defective.

But yeah, tell people to either agree with you or not post.

X2...I've only heard of a few people on this forum complaining about this issue, but their "best guess" is there are several hundred of them. How would they know that and how many are affected, or is their claim the others just don't know any better so therefore they are all bad Chassis. Then to tell others to agree with them or not post at all. If you don't want advice or suggestions on a problem you shouldn't be posting as that is what makes this forum great to use, and people are going to respond trying to help or be part of the discussion.

[jharrell]

Originally Posted by mel s

LVRVLUVR
What does "my trans doesn't work proper" mean?
(Nobody can help you unless you explain what that means).
Mel
'96 Safari

Maybe you haven't been following the various threads but this is about the 2106 6-speed not downshifting when in tow haul mode is on and the brake pedal is pressed as described on page 33 of the owners manual:

"Depending on driving conditions and load conditions, may downshift the transmission, slow your vehicle and control your vehicle speed when descending a hill, without pressing the accelerator pedal. The amount of downshift braking provided will vary based upon the amount the brake pedal is pressed"

My 2016 and others including LVRVLVR's does not downshift ever to provide engine braking unless the shift lever is manually moved to 4 or 2 which jumps 2 gears rather than a more controlled 1 gear step with the brake.

[jharrell]

Originally Posted by Mike and Cha

X2...I've only heard of a few people on this forum complaining about this issue, but their "best guess" is there are several hundred of them. How would they know that and how many are affected, or is their claim the others just don't know any better so therefore they are all bad Chassis. Then to tell others to agree with them or not post at all. If you don't want advice or suggestions on a problem you shouldn't be posting as that is what makes this forum great to use, and people are going to respond trying to help or be part of the discussion.

As far as I know no one has reported a working 2016 6-speed on the 20k below chassis. I may have missed it though as there is a lot of volume in the various threads. All of us seeing this issue haves smaller chassis while some with 22k and up have reported downshifting working properly and I believe one has reported a 26k chassis working at low speed but not highway speed.

[hfbundy]

Originally Posted by alvo

You aren't specific enough in your description of the problem for anyone reading the comments to be able to determine if it's an isolated case or, as you assert, one of hundreds and people don't know theirs is defective.

But yeah, tell people to either agree with you or not post.

There are two other threads in which several of us have described the tow haul issue in detail. The first is downshifting 2016 F53 6 speed transmission and the other is downshifting part 2. For clarity I would have not started part 2 or the current thread, which I believe was started to draw everyone's attention to the fact that there is a serious issue which Ford is refusing to address. The last 5 digits of my VIN number is 00311. Another owner reporting this issue had a VIN number 005nn. We have no reason to believe that any of the transmissions in this 200 plus unit range are working as described in the owner's manual when operated in the tow haul mode. If anyone owns a vehicle in this range and is sure that it is operating properly in the tow haul mode, please advise. For specificity, read the description of the tow haul function in any Ford owner's manual. Our units are not performing any action stated therein.

[powercat_ras]

> ...2016 F53 6-speed not downshifting when in tow haul mode is on and the brake pedal is pressed as described in owners manual...

Thanks ! So it's not specific to one VIN ! I can tell you as a retired systems engineer that this IMO IS a engineering defect and it's fixable. IMO the fix will be a update to the ECM module program ( it also controls shifting the transmission ). Can't say why it's taking Ford such a long time to deploy the fix and release a service bulletin to dealers documenting how to implement it. IMO when it's available it will be a warranty fix and no cost to owners.

Don't know if it will rise to the level of becoming a NHSA recall.

If I owned a 2016 F53 with this issue, as a retired Systems Engineer here's what I think F53 owners can do to "help" Ford give this issue the proper attention and get it fixed:

#1: Make sure it's not already fixed but dealer's service departments are not finding about the fix! I would be working with a Dealer Service Advisor (perhaps even the manager) to look on their Ford dealer accessible information to see if there are any service bulletins for F53 for this - perhaps there is already a SB with a ECM update out there to fix this that the front line techs who are working on F53s with this issue are not aware of. There is a new Service information update monthly and it includes all service bulletins so every month goes by there is a chance that the fix for this showed up and no one is aware.

If #1 determines there still is no fix available now:

- I would file a complaint with the federal NHSA (National Highway Saftey Administration) , this can be done online. Ford will get notified by NHSA of the complaint and this will raise visibility internally within Ford.

- I would file a complaint with the RV maker's product manager for the RV built with 2016 Ford F53, they will complain to Ford and this will also raise visibility internally within Ford.

- I would file an Executive Complaint with Ford, addressed to the CEO , President , etc. of Ford. This will flow down and raise visibility within Ford.

These complaints MUST be short and to the point and fact based with dates and VIN numbers. Don't waste time if you write emotion charged attack style complaints like some of the posts on this tread stating that Ford is no good, not competent, does not care etc. Just say what is wrong and say that it needs to work like described in the owner's manual. An single short example of why it's important such as when going down the grade from Eisenhower Tunnel to Denver without overheating one's brakes would be good.

- One final thought - might be able to find another Forum that is read by Ford service people and Ford engineers to document the complaint in a fact based way there and see if anyone can shed any light from within the Ford family on this issue. Sorry, I don't have any specific ideas on which Forum but there are thousands of online forums like IRV2 for every specialty imaginable.

Good luck,

Randy

[TeJay]

Originally Posted by powercat_ras

> ...2016 F53 6-speed not downshifting when in tow haul mode is on and the brake pedal is pressed as described in owners manual...

Thanks ! So it's not specific to one VIN ! I can tell you as a retired systems engineer that this IMO IS a engineering defect and it's fixable. IMO the fix will be a update to the ECM module program ( it also controls shifting the transmission ). Can't say why it's taking Ford such a long time to deploy the fix and release a service bulletin to dealers documenting how to implement it. IMO when it's available it will be a warranty fix and no cost to owners.

Don't know if it will rise to the level of becoming a NHSA recall.

If I owned a 2016 F53 with this issue, as a retired Systems Engineer here's what I think F53 owners can do to "help" Ford give this issue the proper attention and get it fixed:

#1: Make sure it's not already fixed but dealer's service departments are not finding about the fix! I would be working with a Dealer Service Advisor (perhaps even the manager) to look on their Ford dealer accessible information to see if there are any service bulletins for F53 for this - perhaps there is already a SB with a ECM update out there to fix this that the front line techs who are working on F53s with this issue are not aware of. There is a new Service information update monthly and it includes all service bulletins so every month goes by there is a chance that the fix for this showed up and no one is aware.

If #1 determines there still is no fix available now:

- I would file a complaint with the federal NHSA (National Highway Saftey Administration) , this can be done online. Ford will get notified by NHSA of the complaint and this will raise visibility internally within Ford.

- I would file a complaint with the RV maker's product manager for the RV built with 2016 Ford F53, they will complain to Ford and this will also raise visibility internally within Ford.

- I would file an Executive Complaint with Ford, addressed to the CEO , President , etc. of Ford. This will flow down and raise visibility within Ford.

These complaints MUST be short and to the point and fact based with dates and VIN numbers. Don't waste time if you write emotion charged attack style complaints like some of the posts on this tread stating that Ford is no good, not competent, does not care etc. Just say what is wrong and say that it needs to work like described in the owner's manual. An single short example of why it's important such as when going down the grade from Eisenhower Tunnel to Denver without overheating one's brakes would be good.

- One final thought - might be able to find another Forum that is read by Ford service people and Ford engineers to document the complaint in a fact based way there and see if anyone can shed any light from within the Ford family on this issue. Sorry, I don't have any specific ideas on which Forum but there are thousands of online forums like IRV2 for every specialty imaginable.

Good luck,
Randy

Great post with a lot of sound advice!!!!

TeJay

[mel s]

Originally Posted by mel s

LVRVLUVR
What does "my trans doesn't work proper" mean?
(Nobody can help you unless you explain what that means).
Mel
'96 Safari

Originally Posted by jharrell

Maybe you haven't been following the various threads but this is about the 2106 6-speed not downshifting when in tow haul mode is on and the brake pedal is pressed as described on page 33 of the owners manual:

"Depending on driving conditions and load conditions, may downshift the transmission, slow your vehicle and control your vehicle speed when descending a hill, without pressing the accelerator pedal. The amount of downshift braking provided will vary based upon the amount the brake pedal is pressed"

My 2016 and others including LVRVLVR's does not downshift ever to provide engine braking unless the shift lever is manually moved to 4 or 2 which jumps 2 gears rather than a more controlled 1 gear step with the brake.

jharrell
Thanks for explaining LVRVLUVR's transmission problem for him.

Because he neglected to describe his transmission problem, (and because none of the "various threads" on the subject where referenced by LVRVLUVR in his posts to this thread), I couldn't figure out what his Ford 6speed trans problem was.

Thanks again!

Mel
'96 Safari

[cpoo]

I drove from WI to Florida and return. Used the tow haul as I had in my five speed. It worked on down grades. The shift points were different. The first down shift is subtle and works nicely on lesser grades. It was not enough on the steep grades of Mounteagle and after more braking it downshifted further and revved about 4,000 RPM's. This held it for the entire grade. As I recal on my five speed in went to the 3500 rpm level and stayed there even with a little use of brakes. So it worked but a bit different. I also use tow haul in city traffic and it did kick in once when needed in Atlanta traffic. So I do think mine is working on my Winnebago Suncruiser 38Q. I have posted this information on other threads on IRV2.

[hfbundy]

Originally Posted by cpoo

I drove from WI to Florida and return. Used the tow haul as I had in my five speed. It worked on down grades. The shift points were different. The first down shift is subtle and works nicely on lesser grades. It was not enough on the steep grades of Mounteagle and after more braking it downshifted further and revved about 4,000 RPM's. This held it for the entire grade. As I recal on my five speed in went to the 3500 rpm level and stayed there even with a little use of brakes. So it worked but a bit different. I also use tow haul in city traffic and it did kick in once when needed in Atlanta traffic. So I do think mine is working on my Winnebago Suncruiser 38Q. I have posted this information on other threads on IRV2.

What are the last 5 digits of your VIN? It is looking like none of the early production units worked and then at some point they started working. It would be helpful to define the VIN range of those not working. It could be that Ford came up with a fix for this problem, but does not want to backfit it to the early production units.

[powercat_ras]

Originally Posted by hfbundy

What are the last 5 digits of your VIN? It is looking like none of the early production units worked and then at some point they started working. It would be helpful to define the VIN range of those not working. It could be that Ford came up with a fix for this problem, but does not want to backfit it to the early production units.

This makes more sense! If only early production units have the problem then most owners of those early units would not have a clue that they even had a Towhaul problem (I bet a majority of F53 owners have no clue what Towhaul is and how to use it), so the number of complaints coming into Ford could be a small handful so that it has not bubbled up to an engineer who can say "ah-ha we forgot to do a service bulletin telling Ford service professionals that those early unit's ECM need to have their software updated". If its a small VIN range, it would also explain why there is nothing being found by dealers or the Ford customer service call center searching for information and fixes for the issue.

[hfbundy]

Originally Posted by jharrell

As far as I know no one has reported a working 2016 6-speed on the 20k below chassis. I may have missed it though as there is a lot of volume in the various threads. All of us seeing this issue haves smaller chassis while some with 22k and up have reported downshifting working properly and I believe one has reported a 26k chassis working at low speed but not highway speed.

The 26k chassis you reference was downshifting the same way at low speed with or without the tow haul mode selected. The owner slowed down to make a turn into a down grade. The engine shifted down because he was going slow and did not upshift because it sensed acceleration without throttle signal. That is the way they work. My 2013 Ford FX4 works the same way. The tow haul in the 26k chassis was not working and it was the first defective heavier one I have seen reported. This leads me to believe that VINs are salient to the issue and chassis rating is not relevant.

[jharrell]

Originally Posted by hfbundy

The 26k chassis you reference was downshifting the same way at low speed with or without the tow haul mode selected. The owner slowed down to make a turn into a down grade. The engine shifted down because he was going slow and did not upshift because it sensed acceleration without throttle signal. That is the way they work. My 2013 Ford FX4 works the same way. The tow haul in the 26k chassis was not working and it was the first defective heavier one I have seen reported. This leads me to believe that VINs are salient to the issue and chassis rating is not relevant.

Perhaps it is VIN related not GVWR, however my line number is 02013. The correlation seems stronger with GVWR to me, but who knows.

I wish I could peek at the source code, but I probably don't want too know. I took a look at the source code from Toyota after they where sued for a Camry safety issue and it was brought to light the ECU programming was at fault and it was of horrible quality. For some reason I don't think Ford is better in this dept. than Toyota.

[hfbundy]

Originally Posted by jharrell

Perhaps it is VIN related not GVWR, however my line number is 02013. The correlation seems stronger with GVWR to me, but who knows.

I wish I could peek at the source code, but I probably don't want too know. I took a look at the source code from Toyota after they where sued for a Camry safety issue and it was brought to light the ECU programming was at fault and it was of horrible quality. For some reason I don't think Ford is better in this dept. than Toyota.

It is unfortunate that so many threads were started on this issue. I see at least 4 major ones. I just looked at a post from Yellowboat, who says his 6 speed is working in the tow haul mode:
Per my VIN number I have the 617th 2016 chassis. It might be interesting to know the line number of vehicles with a tow haul problem.

It appears that my VIN connection theory might be invalid. I would guess the problem is related to a bad lot of ECM modules. However, I cannot be sure that they install all the parts from one lot before they start on the next lot. Getting to the bottom of this issue might require knowledge and expertise that only Ford has access to. The one thing we know is that a significant number of us got stuck with bad parts. I am not buying the position that this is an issue which would require additional CARB testing prior to resolution.

[jharrell]

Originally Posted by hfbundy

It appears that my VIN connection theory might be invalid. I would guess the problem is related to a bad lot of ECM modules. However, I cannot be sure that they install all the parts from one lot before they start on the next lot. Getting to the bottom of this issue might require knowledge and expertise that only Ford has access to. The one thing we know is that a significant number of us got stuck with bad parts. I am not buying the position that this is an issue which would require additional CARB testing prior to resolution.

My theory is it's just some software configuration issue, not hardware. Everything seems to be working and shifting fine, it's just not responding to brake press for downshift.

The question is why are some working some not, I just see a strong GVWR correlation based on the post here, but it's not 100%, it may be a canard.

Thing is we don't know exactly how Ford produces these things and programs them. I think they are all produced at one plant by Detroit chassis so the last 5 digits on the VIN line number should denote the cardinal production number, but if there are multiple plants it might not apply.

Could be something none of have thought of yet, I seem to recall 5 star saying there are 100's of different programs for the F53 and they need to know VIN to give the right one. 5 star would probably be the best to give us some info beyond Ford who probably will never tell.

I have a hard time even understanding how this could not be working since the 6-speed has been deployed in other vehicles since 2011 and with the V10 for a few years which is why I was confident in buying it first year in the F53, I am overall very happy with my MH, but I do envy the grade braking as described that is not working for me.