Incredible loss of power at high altitude 10 - 12000 feet

[cbilodeau]

Originally Posted by Hikerdogs

This is straight from pages 35 and 36 of the 1999 Ford F53 chassis owners manual:

The towing vehicle braking system is rated for operation at the GVWR, not the GCWR.

Separate functioning brake systems are required for safe control of

towed vehicles and trailers weighing more than 680 kg (1,500 lbs) when loaded.

Here's a link to the manual:

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/catalog/owner_guides/99motog4e.pdf

Many thanks for this information. So a braking system on the towed car is necessary. I would still use it only for catastrophic braking if possible.

[GoneToTheDog]

One should not assume that laws pertaining to the towing of a 'trailer' or the weight limit of said 'trailer'.....will always also apply to towing a 'car'. Internet websites regarding this information are often incorrect and incomplete.

I won't quote him verbatim, but someone with and extensive background and knowledge on the subject expressed this, on another forum a while ago.

Many states have additional laws regarding and pertaining to strictly just the towing of a 'car'....the weight limits involved, and the applicable braking requirements....that are not always commonly known or even readily apparent with just a quick search of each state's laws.

[Boondockin]

Originally Posted by cbilodeau

Today we drove 1.5 hours toward Yusemite National Park. During the trip today I had the code P1405.

Seems like I have a DPFE problem or one of the two hoses going to the DPFE. I have change my DPFE two years ago.

I cleared the code and it came back only one hour later. I have changed all the hoses of the engine two years ago.

Do you think that if my DPFE has a problem it could weaken my engine at high altitude?

The DPFE is very easy to replace. It takes 10 minutes, is on top of the engine. It cost about 40$ to $50.

You mentioned in a previous post that you had a (lean engine code) come up...? Right?... That is opposite of what you should be experiencing at high altitude... the thing should be pig rich at high altitude if anything... not lean...

I would be checking fuel pressure regulator... the DPFE issue... Fuel filter... and also the MASS air flow sensor on the air filter housing... it is easy to get the MASS air flow sensor out of position and cause "un-fueled" air or uncalculated air to reach the engine definitely causing a lean condition...

[In Pursuit]

I went over monarch pass on June 21 in my 2000 Georgie Boy with a 1999 Ford F53. I was in first gear with the rpms at 4000 going about 25 mph. I pull a Honda CR-V with a Ready Brake system. It is properly adjusted and doesn't tear up the brakes. I go slow and enjoy the view. I really can tell the difference with the extra braking. I had to stop twice last year going over the Canadian Rockies to let the MH brakes cool off. This year no stopping to cool the brakes. Don't let one person's experience stop you from doing the right move to install an auxiliary braking system. Ready Brake is cable operated and I have mine adjusted to apply minimum braking so as to not over use the toad brakes, yet still assist. My MH does not have a lot of power but it is what we can afford and we love it. We take our time and only travel 250 to 300 miles a day. We enjoy the view.
BTW, I have the SES light come on and it is the P0401 EGR insufficient flow code. I have changed the EGR valve, the vacuum modulator, and the DPFE sensor and still get the code. I drove all last year with it on during or 4 month 7500 mile trip. Ran fine. Don't know what to do to fix it now.
Go slow, enjoy your trip knowing your MH will go slow up mountains but it is paid for.

[Boondockin]

I just noticed your post about the lean code was after the mountains when you were in Las Vegas... still worth checking the fuel pressure regulator, fuel filter and Mass air flow for issues...

[cbilodeau]

Originally Posted by In Pursuit

I went over monarch pass on June 21 in my 2000 Georgie Boy with a 1999 Ford F53. I was in first gear with the rpms at 4000 going about 25 mph. I pull a Honda CR-V with a Ready Brake system. It is properly adjusted and doesn't tear up the brakes. I go slow and enjoy the view. I really can tell the difference with the extra braking. I had to stop twice last year going over the Canadian Rockies to let the MH brakes cool off. This year no stopping to cool the brakes. Don't let one person's experience stop you from doing the right move to install an auxiliary braking system. Ready Brake is cable operated and I have mine adjusted to apply minimum braking so as to not over use the toad brakes, yet still assist. My MH does not have a lot of power but it is what we can afford and we love it. We take our time and only travel 250 to 300 miles a day. We enjoy the view.
BTW, I have the SES light come on and it is the P0401 EGR insufficient flow code. I have changed the EGR valve, the vacuum modulator, and the DPFE sensor and still get the code. I drove all last year with it on during or 4 month 7500 mile trip. Ran fine. Don't know what to do to fix it now.
Go slow, enjoy your trip knowing your MH will go slow up mountains but it is paid for.

1 - About the braking. I came back last week from Sequoia National Forest at the north. The road was going down for a long long time. But I was in first gear at 25mph all the way. The grade was 6% most of the time. I did not use the brakes very much. Just some push in some curbs or when the compression needed some help. I was towing my Honda Odyssey.

Yesterday I came back from the Yosemite National Park. I did just the same in first gear.

Those were two very intensive experience since there is a lot of hills but for my brakes it was not a big deal.

Today I drove to San Francisco to visit the Alcatraz Prison. There was some very big hills and I did a very good management of the compression and did not need to use the brakes a lot.

[cbilodeau]

Originally Posted by In Pursuit

I went over monarch pass on June 21 in my 2000 Georgie Boy with a 1999 Ford F53. I was in first gear with the rpms at 4000 going about 25 mph. I pull a Honda CR-V with a Ready Brake system. It is properly adjusted and doesn't tear up the brakes. I go slow and enjoy the view. I really can tell the difference with the extra braking. I had to stop twice last year going over the Canadian Rockies to let the MH brakes cool off. This year no stopping to cool the brakes. Don't let one person's experience stop you from doing the right move to install an auxiliary braking system. Ready Brake is cable operated and I have mine adjusted to apply minimum braking so as to not over use the toad brakes, yet still assist. My MH does not have a lot of power but it is what we can afford and we love it. We take our time and only travel 250 to 300 miles a day. We enjoy the view.
BTW, I have the SES light come on and it is the P0401 EGR insufficient flow code. I have changed the EGR valve, the vacuum modulator, and the DPFE sensor and still get the code. I drove all last year with it on during or 4 month 7500 mile trip. Ran fine. Don't know what to do to fix it now.
Go slow, enjoy your trip knowing your MH will go slow up mountains but it is paid for.

2 - I had the code P0401 in the past. I read my notes to try to help you but it is not clear what solved my problem.
About the code some gave me this answer:

If Idle is not good then check the PCV hoses to the intake from the passenger side valve cover. The rubber elbows tend to break down due to oil and combustion gases. They crack and allow air into the engine after the MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor. This will cause poor idle control. But if idle is good, change the DPFE. Otherwise check for leaking intake gaskets as well as the isolator bolts. The EGR code P0401 is in most cases caused by a failing DPFE (egr pressure sensor). There should not be any vacuum on the EGR at idle, so I would replace the DPFE sensor and clean the EGR.

But at that time my idle was good and I had just changed the DPFE. A few days later, the new DPFE melted. It was made of plastic instead of metal like the original. I then read on the internet that my Catalitic Converter was probably clogged.

So I went at Autozone and bought a 24" pipe male-female 3-1/2" diameter for about $10. I was on a long trip. I stopped at an Home Depot, bought a tool and cut the Catalitic converter and replaced it with the pipe. I changed the DPFE again and was able to travel 3000 miles. At home I installed a new Catalitic converter and I had no problems for more than 15000 miles.

But in my notes it is not clear if this is what solved the P0401 code. Probably but it is not written.

[cbilodeau]

Originally Posted by Boondockin

You mentioned in a previous post that you had a (lean engine code) come up...? Right?... That is opposite of what you should be experiencing at high altitude... the thing should be pig rich at high altitude if anything... not lean...

I would be checking fuel pressure regulator... the DPFE issue... Fuel filter... and also the MASS air flow sensor on the air filter housing... it is easy to get the MASS air flow sensor out of position and cause "un-fueled" air or uncalculated air to reach the engine definitely causing a lean condition...

Sorry for the delay for my answer. We had no good internet in the Yosemite National Park.

The lean codes never came back and I drove a lot and in very difficult hills and at very hot temperature.

They came only after I drove the motorhome on a very hot day when the motorhome had seated for 3 days.

[churd9]

Originally Posted by cbilodeau

I have run now the generator about 21 hours with no problems with 15W50. No problem at all. Onan says to change the oil every 100 hours so I will have to change it probably in the next two weeks. In the past months I discussed about the Onan oil in a previous thread with the community.

The engine is designed to run with 30w oil ..do you even know what that means ? It's the clearance between the parts that the oil must fill so that the engine runs on a thin layer of oil.weight is determined by the size of molecules of the oil. If you use 50w the engine isn't getting lubricant correctly.
21 hrs is nothing you should use the correct oil you engine was designed to run on

[cbilodeau]

Originally Posted by churd9

The engine is designed to run with 30w oil ..do you even know what that means ? It's the clearance between the parts that the oil must fill so that the engine runs on a thin layer of oil.weight is determined by the size of molecules of the oil. If you use 50w the engine isn't getting lubricant correctly.
21 hrs is nothing you should use the correct oil you engine was designed to run on

If you download a recent version of the BGM Operator's manual for the 1999 genset, you will see on page 5 that Onan has added other oil than SAE30.

Here is the official information:

TABLE 1. OIL VISCOSITY VS. TEMPERATURE EXPECTED AMBIENT

TEMPERATURES = SAE VISCOSITY GRADE

1 - Temperature 32° F (0° C) and higher = SAE30

2 - Temperature 10° F to 100° F (-12° C to 38° C) = 15W-40 (OnaMax)

3 - Temperature 0° F to 80° F (-18° C to 27° C) = 10W-30 or 10W-40

4 - Temperature -20 ° F to 50° F (-28° C to 10° C) = 5W-30

In a previous thread I have made a lot of research. Here are my conclusions in this thread:

1 - When Onan made this official document, SAE30 was giving the highest temperature. But I have realised that SAE30 gives in fact the highest temperture a few years ago when this SAE30 had no DETERGENT (They call it SAE30 ND). But today most SAE30 have DETERGENT and when there are detergent the SAE30 does not give a higher temperature than another 30 oil like 10W30 or 5W30.

2 - The other companies (Brigg & Stratton and John Deere) that makes small engine also added 15W-40, 10W30, 10W40 and 5W-30 over the years for their old small engines. But in the recent years they have also added the 15W50 which is a new technology that gives you the top temperature. Only Onan did not yet added this oil for their small engines.

15W50 gives (20F to 130F or -7C to 55C)

I have put Mobil 1 - 15W50 full synthetic from Walmart. They have a 4 quart bottle for $25. My genset was at 401.6 and now it is at 445.7 hours. My genset never ran so good in the past. It starts perfectly, run without shutting off and it does not make a lot of noise. Also this is the only oil that did not boiled in my air filter at extreme temperature in the deserts.

[Hikerdogs]

Your mention of the generator oil "boiling out of the air filter" brought to mind an update Onan sent out for generators of that era. Our 2001 Adventurer had the same generator as you have in your 1999.

About a year after we bought it Onan came out with a kit to stop oil from being purged back to the air cleaner. If memory serves correctly it was a new rear section of the air cleaner housing with a vent tube and baffle. Also included in the kit was a new air cleaner and a fitting to replace the fuel filter at the carburetor.

That model originally came with 2 fuel filters. One was under the frame of the unit just upstream of the fuel pump. The second screwed into the carburetor. They had an inordinate number of filters by the carburetor leaking so they eliminated it and replaced it with a fitting.

[cbilodeau]

Originally Posted by Hikerdogs

Your mention of the generator oil "boiling out of the air filter" brought to mind an update Onan sent out for generators of that era. Our 2001 Adventurer had the same generator as you have in your 1999.

About a year after we bought it Onan came out with a kit to stop oil from being purged back to the air cleaner. If memory serves correctly it was a new rear section of the air cleaner housing with a vent tube and baffle. Also included in the kit was a new air cleaner and a fitting to replace the fuel filter at the carburetor.

That model originally came with 2 fuel filters. One was under the frame of the unit just upstream of the fuel pump. The second screwed into the carburetor. They had an inordinate number of filters by the carburetor leaking so they eliminated it and replaced it with a fitting.

I did not know about this air cleaner fix. But since 15W50 stopped the oil from going into the air filter at extreme outdoor temperature I guess I won't need another fix.

I did not modify my fuel filter system yet. I will do it next month. I have bought it but was too busy.

I will remove the original fuel filter and replace it with a fitting. I will put the new fuel filter before the fuel pump. I read that when the fuel filter is after the fuel pump, if ever the fuel filter has a leak, it could set a fire since the pump will continue to operate. But when the fuel filter is before the pump if there is a leak in the fuel filter, the pump will breath air and will then stop pumping fuel.

Many thanks.

[Medic57]

One thing I have not seen mentioned in the whole overweight discussion is whether or not your insurance will cover you if you have an accident when you are exceeding the maximum weights. My understanding is they can deny a claim under those circumstances. It may also open you up to big legal problems should you be deemed "at fault" in an accident.

[cbilodeau]

Originally Posted by Medic57

One thing I have not seen mentioned in the whole overweight discussion is whether or not your insurance will cover you if you have an accident when you are exceeding the maximum weights. My understanding is they can deny a claim under those circumstances. It may also open you up to big legal problems should you be deemed "at fault" in an accident.

Yes you are right they could for sure use this in a law suit if they hear about it.

On the other hand, you can also counter-attack.

1 - You could demonstrate that a similar motorhome with the same weight as mine does brake in the expected distance. This would limit their argument to the suspension and the torsion.

2 - You could also try to demonstrate that a motorhome fully loaded of water like mine is much stable on the road since it creates less sway. Nobody ever talked about it on the 300 pages of the CHF thread but yes a motorhome fully loaded of water should in theory be safer on the road than one that is not overweight but that has no water.
The reason? When you motorhome sway to the left, the water goes to the right and compensate the sway movement. Some huge tower have a big water bucket to help them erase the sway implied by the wind.

3 - You could also demonstrate that the builder Fleetwood does not synchronise their engeneers to the Ford's engeneers about the center of gravity and the weight distribution they add on the F53. If you can demonstrate that Fleetwood "RESPECT ONLY" the weight limit without doing real computations about the sway, the gravity center, the weight distribution, then they are as much guilty as you are.

4 - You could demonstrate in court that the motorhome builder creates motorhomes that, when they are empty, are almost already at the Ford weight limit and they should know that like a home needs water, you will fill you water tanks in your motorhome because you need water. It is "a normal usage" to fill the water tank. How can they tell us that this is "an inhabitual use"?

5 - You could demonstrate in court that if a motorhome builder gives you 6 sleeping spaces, they should expect a family of 6 person + 1 small kid to be in the motorhome with their luggage and the water required for them.

6 - You could bring the 300 pages of the CHF thread. This would show the judge that the main problem F53 owners have is the sway and the control of the motorhome on the road. Many modify it and if they don't then some give up having a motorhome. The question to the judge is: if we need to modify the suspension so much and so often, did they really do a good design???

In conclusion, Ford and the Motorhome builder would have to consider those arguments before they go in court.