Intermittent bounce of motor home steering column bounce up and down

[lpc]

I have a Holiday rambler 34 bunk house F 53 chassis v10 ford. The wheels (rims) are 19.5 x 6.75 10 lug 225 bolt circle. The tires are 245 70R 19.5, all tires are within 3 years old and are in good shape. The problem; at about 65 +/- a intermittent vibration begins in the steering column, while the vibration is not violent it is a bit disturbing, it comes and goes without explanation. I have tried all I know to eliminate this problem. If any one has experienced this vibration and can share the experience with me I would greatly appreciate it. I am discovering the wheels are not true and maybe out of tolerance. I will purchase a accuride 19.5 x 6.75 10 lug in the next couple of days and give that a try. I have spent endless hours researching this condition and have not found anyone complain about a vibration in the steering column. My coach tracks perfect, it does not porpoise and or get pushed around on the interstate by passing semi's. tire wear is does not exhibit unusual ware patterns. the coach is in good shape and has 32,000 miles. By the way the chassis is a F53 20,500 2008 put in service 2010. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[AITG]

Originally Posted by lpc

I have a Holiday rambler 34 bunk house F 53 chassis v10 ford. The wheels (rims) are 19.5 x 6.75 10 lug 225 bolt circle. The tires are 245 70R 19.5, all tires are within 3 years old and are in good shape. The problem; at about 65 +/- a intermittent vibration begins in the steering column, while the vibration is not violent it is a bit disturbing, it comes and goes without explanation. I have tried all I know to eliminate this problem. If any one has experienced this vibration and can share the experience with me I would greatly appreciate it. I am discovering the wheels are not true and maybe out of tolerance. I will purchase a accuride 19.5 x 6.75 10 lug in the next couple of days and give that a try. I have spent endless hours researching this condition and have not found anyone complain about a vibration in the steering column. My coach tracks perfect, it does not porpoise and or get pushed around on the interstate by passing semi's. tire wear is does not exhibit unusual ware patterns. the coach is in good shape and has 32,000 miles. By the way the chassis is a F53 20,500 2008 put in service 2010. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

My Newmar does the same thing. There was a thread a month or so ago on this complaint. The prevailing theory is that the hub piloted wheels have enough play between the four locator tabs and the inner bore of the wheel to allow the wheels to be tightened down slightly off center (in the vicinity of 0.015 inch). On a straight truck (U-haul, FedEx, UPS, etc.) the ride isn't going to be judged as critically.
There are stud pilots available to center the wheel more accurately but they aren't cheap and aren't readily used. I need to find some thin feeler gauges and see what I can work out over the winter.

[lpc]

Originally Posted by AITG

My Newmar does the same thing. There was a thread a month or so ago on this complaint. The prevailing theory is that the hub piloted wheels have enough play between the four locator tabs and the inner bore of the wheel to allow the wheels to be tightened down slightly off center (in the vicinity of 0.015 inch). On a straight truck (U-haul, FedEx, UPS, etc.) the ride isn't going to be judged as critically.
There are stud pilots available to center the wheel more accurately but they aren't cheap and aren't readily used. I need to find some thin feeler gauges and see what I can work out over the winter.

I have installed true balance centering sleeves. they did not seem to make any difference. Personally I cannot see where .015 could cause an offset enough to through the balance out. But I have read some post that will swear by them. Good luck with your fix, and thank you so much for sharing your thought, I truly appreciate it

[AITG]

What you're feeling is out of round, not out of balance. I have noted that a gradual freeway curve will make the shake disappear. After the road straightens out, it takes a few tenths of a mile before the shake returns. I interpret that as meaning that the issue is relatively small. That's what I have observed - your problem may be different.
My idea is to mount each steer tire so it is tight on two tabs, snug two or three nuts down and measure the gap at the bottom two tabs. Then, insert two feeler gauges half the gap thickness between the top tabs and the rim hole. Torqueing all 10 nuts and (hopefully) removing the feeler gauges. I should know if it works this coming April - it's put away for the winter now.

[AITG]

I got to thinking about this last night. The F53 chassis is very sensitive to tire/road inputs. I have noticed that I can feel a stone stuck in a tread groove as the coach comes to a stop on smooth pavement. I don't recall ever feeling that in any of my pickups or cars.


Looking for an explanation I realized that motor home bodies are welded to the frame. In other words, any movement is transmitted into the body and ultimately the driver's seat. Anything else that's body-on-frame has mount cushions that insulate the cab from the frame. Pickup trucks, school buses, truck cabs, even old cars all have body mount insulators. Most are rubber but some medium duty trucks use hydralastic cushions. School bus bodies have a wood separator on top of the frame rail and the body is attached to the frame by u-bolts. Most class 8 trucks (Kenworth/Peterbilt/Mack/etc.) have small airbags to let the cab 'float' in relation to the frame.


Bottom line: motor homes are going to be very sensitive to any chassis/frame movement. Air ride isolates the axles from the frame much more effectively. The question becomes "Are you willing to spend another $50-100 k for a super-smooth ride?" I'm not. I will try to resolve the out of round issue and I will let you know how it turns out.

[lpc]

AITG, thank you for taking an interest. Yes, you are 100% correct about the chassis mounting. I like to refer to them as Rigid chassis, when in fact they truly are. I have tried the true balance sleeve solution. during the time I was installing the sleeves I formed an opinion, in that they were not going to solve anything at least on my chassis. The reason. The machined tolerance is provide in a general sense as opposed to specific to each need. On some chassis it could very well work. on mine it did not. Rule that out. I at some point thought it may be road induced, and decided to install front airbags, oh well rule that out. I balanced on road force machine, no luck. I balanced with counteract, with some difference. The difference being the road forced balance was done so off the coach and in a perfect environment, once it was put on the coach the environment changed. The counter act was a on coach balance system of which did make a small as well as noticeable difference in that the counteract was trying to do its job and balance everything out on the assembly, rule that out. What you stated last evening was very accurate. I will shim the front assemblies (both sides ) and give it a try. I would be pleasantly surprised if the shimming method( splitting the difference on the centering lugs) will be effective. I live in southeast Louisiana, our winters get to be 50 degrees so we keep on doing everything without having to deal with winter conditions. I am bound and determined to make this coach ride better. I do believe it should, even withstanding the ridged chassis. I would not contact Ford as I would be extremely disappointed in the position I think they would take, same thing with holiday rambler. Now lets move on to the dollars and cents of all of this. Once again you are correct in stating in would be senseless in spending a bunch of dollars on the fix, after all we have already in a sense paid for engineering, and may not have received a good dollar value. I will keep you advised on my findings. I will say this, I set up a dial indicator on the hub assembly and found both sides to be running out maybe .001, so far as I am concerned that is perfect. The problem is all in the wheel hub fit, or lack there off. But, what do you think about aluminum wheels? Any chance they may be machined to a closer tolerance? Once again Thank you for responding and sharing your experiences and thoughts.

[AITG]

I'm a fan of trying free things first, then moving up to more expensive things as a last resort. Be sure that the mounting surfaces (the vertical face) of the hubs are clean, as well as the inside mounting face of each wheel. Put a drop of oil between each nut and the washer that's attached to it. Then, tighten the lug nuts in the pattern shown in your manual. If you don't have a manual, try 3 o'clock, 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock. Then do the rest of them going 180 degrees from the last one. If you're using an impact, don't hammer them down. Do your tightening with a torque wrench. Mine are 140 ft. lb. but verify that yours are the same.

The wheel size is 19.5 x 6.75. I did a quick search and couldn't find an aluminum wheel that's the proper width. Moreover, they're about $600. for a pair. They are also thicker than steel wheels and I don't know if the nuts will make full contact with the studs.

AFA help from Ford: the F-53 is designed as a motor home chassis. Commercial bodies go on the F-59 chassis. The three biggest customers for the F-53 are likely Thor, REV Group and WBGO. As such, they dictate what they want from Ford and Ford responds. (Think 2 piece frame rails to allow the MH mfr to change the wb). You and I have zero clout with Ford since we aren't the customer.

All of which is only my opinion based on 30+ years as an ASE Certified Master Truck Technician. For the record, vibrations are usually the last thing a mechanic gets competent diagnosing. Too many rotating parts on a truck. I don't mind chasing them - it's challenging - but I have to admit I tried to avoid gas engines and hydraulic brakes. Diesels are easier to work on as long as someone else is paying the bill.

[lpc]

AITG, well put, are you sure you are not a philosophy professor. Just kidding. I agree with all you said. The most significant is as a tech diagnosing imbalance is not a favorite, says it all. All because as you said there are so many moving parts. I am a little deflated at this point, probably kick back in tomorrow. I did see a interesting post on this irv site, I believe it was posted as vibration on the owners forum. Not sure it may have been you who posted. If ya get a chance take a look. I will not have any time until 11/12/2018 as my wife and I along with some friends are going on a cruise, bad timing for me as I will work on this circumstance (mentally that is) for the whole time. fortunately I will be with friends who share the same passion for RVing, or should I say working on em. I'll be in touch when I get back

[biggcrisp]

Have you tried rotating the front tires to the rear?

[lpc]

Not yet but that will be the next step. thank You. I will let you know the results

[lpc]

Originally Posted by AITG

What you're feeling is out of round, not out of balance. I have noted that a gradual freeway curve will make the shake disappear. After the road straightens out, it takes a few tenths of a mile before the shake returns. I interpret that as meaning that the issue is relatively small. That's what I have observed - your problem may be different.
My idea is to mount each steer tire so it is tight on two tabs, snug two or three nuts down and measure the gap at the bottom two tabs. Then, insert two feeler gauges half the gap thickness between the top tabs and the rim hole. Torqueing all 10 nuts and (hopefully) removing the feeler gauges. I should know if it works this coming April - it's put away for the winter now.

Do you think I should consider the wheel bearings? I do not feel any play and or hear any noise. Same true with drive shaft and hanger bearing.

[AITG]

Originally Posted by lpc

Do you think I should consider the wheel bearings? I do not feel any play and or hear any noise. Same true with drive shaft and hanger bearing.

If you have an infrared thermometer you can drive it for 30 minutes, then stop and shoot hubs for a no cost bearing check. Depending on bearing adjustment you might find a minor variation between them (15 degrees or less).
What you're describing doesn't sound like drive line vibration but it's not a bad idea to check joint timing and play in the joints and the slip yoke. You don't have near enough miles for a bad carrier bearing unless the slip yoke is siezed.

[Agility57]

Originally Posted by lpc

I have a Holiday rambler 34 bunk house F 53 chassis v10 ford. The wheels (rims) are 19.5 x 6.75 10 lug 225 bolt circle. The tires are 245 70R 19.5, all tires are within 3 years old and are in good shape. The problem; at about 65 +/- a intermittent vibration begins in the steering column, while the vibration is not violent it is a bit disturbing, it comes and goes without explanation. I have tried all I know to eliminate this problem. If any one has experienced this vibration and can share the experience with me I would greatly appreciate it. I am discovering the wheels are not true and maybe out of tolerance. I will purchase a accuride 19.5 x 6.75 10 lug in the next couple of days and give that a try. I have spent endless hours researching this condition and have not found anyone complain about a vibration in the steering column. My coach tracks perfect, it does not porpoise and or get pushed around on the interstate by passing semi's. tire wear is does not exhibit unusual ware patterns. the coach is in good shape and has 32,000 miles. By the way the chassis is a F53 20,500 2008 put in service 2010. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I am certainly going to watch this thread. My wheel out-of-balance feel has been the most frustrating issue I have had with my Ford motorhome.

[lpc]

Originally Posted by Agility57

I am certainly going to watch this thread. My wheel out-of-balance feel has been the most frustrating issue I have had with my Ford motorhome.

please do. I am of the opinion it is rotational. I am also beginning to believe it may be in the wheels (rims), as that is the only thing I have not adjusted. I have read somewhere that the accuride wheels manufactured in that time frame were out of tolerance from the factory. Seems to me ford would step up and resolve there problem as opposed to sending it out to the unexpecting end user. (ok no more gripes). My next step will be to put a rim (no tire) on the hub and check it for run out. I do believe I will find a significant amount of vertical as well as side to side. If I find what I think I am looking for I will let all know. On my coach, it seems to be coming from the passenger side front. I can fell the vibration thru the steering column while driving. The passenger side is felt thru the floor and seat. It is a extremely time consuming process, I am of the opinion I may be closing in on it thanks to all the in put from everyone here. I will let Ya"ll (southern slang) know ASAP. Stay tuned.