No brakes. Brake line(s) leaking. What next?

[superk]

Originally Posted by RolandRock

Next time you go under the MH take a can of your favorite rust buster with you and spray all the connectors especially the bleeder screws. Let this soak in as long as possible (days) and reapply as necessary. I start at the calipers with the correct size 6-point deep socket on the bleeder screws. If they break off, you know you will have to replace that caliper. Take a pair of side cutters or linemans pliers (large wire cutters) and cut the lines where they enter the calipers and fittings so you can get onto these nuts with a 6-point socket also. If there is a lot of rust on the nuts the socket may not fit on at first - tap it on - it must be a tight fit. The important fittings to remove are the ones that enter the master cylinder and the ABS pump and the calipers. All other fittings will be replaced anyways. Don't waste your time on the tees or flex line connections, replace them.


Note: The lines between the master cylinder and the ABS or metering valves may be ok if you don't see a lot of rust or pitting on these lines - check carefully. The worst offenders for rot are the lines that run down to the axels and along the chassis.


Now go get some quality line wrenches and replacement brake lines and flex hoses.
I order my flex hoses for F53 chassis online because the local parts store will not have these in stock and this saves ALOT of cash. The local store will have assorted lengths of 3/16 brake line in stock already flared with connectors. Get slightly longer
or shorter lengths than you think you need because you probably won't be able to match all the bends precisely. Longer is better on long runs, you can always add a couple of bends, but on short runs you may not have the room. If you use a tubing bender, do not over bend the angles. Many of the fancy bends are not always necessary, some are, use you judgment. Just make sure that the lines don't flop around or rub against any thing. Wrap duct tape if you have to, the glue helps seal out moisture rubber tubing and plastic clips can hold moisture against the line and rot it. This is less of a problem with modern coated or copper lines. Now add some unions and brass tees where needed and get 'er done.
Note: The older F53 lines may have 7/16 nuts on the connectors and the new ones will be 3/8, this does not matter as long as the line size and thread match. In another 20 years these connectors won't come off any harder or easier than the ones you are working on now. .... Good luck on your project.

Very information packed post, lots of great tips on how to make this job easier, very much appreciated, thanks!

Originally Posted by lonfu

One more thing, if you decide to use a tub cutter on the steel brake line, make sure that you get one designed for steel. Many folks confuse steel tube cutters with plumbing cutters that they have laying around, for brass and aluminum tubing. I use a metal chop saw for my cuts, saves me a butt full of time!


The spec chart is how some folks make a living. Looks scary! Just remember when installing brass into steel, to tighten firmly but don't strip your fitting off. it is a compression fitting so firm will work just fine.

I purchased this https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The tubing I am using is copper-nickel, and is very soft and easily bent. No bending tools required,it is hand bendable. Apparantly its highly corrosion resistant too, so this should not ever become an issue again. Not being able to stop is not a feeling I want to experience more of lol.

Originally Posted by chboone

This may have already been said. If your going to flare your own tubing brake lines use a double flare flaring tool. Brake lines are double flare. Use seamless tubing and fittings that is designed for brake lines. Whether you use a tube cutter or chop saw debur the tube I.D. and O.D. and blow the tube out real good.
Good luck, no a fun job laying on your back running those lines.

I purchased this https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks for the advice and luck! I dont predict it to be a fun job either.



Ok so one last question before I think I am ready to at least start the project.

With regards to ABS, after the whole brakensystem is bled, all calipers are bleeding only fluid, the manual says to connect an NGS tester or equivalent. to purge the abs. Is this actually required? I can confirm that the brake system was drained of fluid to the point that nothing came out when the pedal was pressed.

I did however limp home, and use the brakes a few times. I was braking on 1 wheel, so I know I will need to change rear brakes already, due to uneven and most likely excessive wear on the solo brake. lol.

[wackymac]

The tubing I am using is copper-nickel, and is very soft and easily bent. No bending tools required,it is hand bendable. Apparantly its highly corrosion resistant too, so this should not ever become an issue again. Not being able to stop is not a feeling I want to experience more of lol.

I believe the tubing is steel with a copper-nickel plating. Copper tubing wouldn't hold the psi generated by the braking system.

[superk]

Originally Posted by wackymac

The tubing I am using is copper-nickel, and is very soft and easily bent. No bending tools required,it is hand bendable. Apparantly its highly corrosion resistant too, so this should not ever become an issue again. Not being able to stop is not a feeling I want to experience more of lol.

I believe the tubing is steel with a copper-nickel plating. Copper tubing wouldn't hold the psi generated by the braking system.

Its a good thing I saw your post. It was a rain day yesterday so the job couldnt get done, and today I was just about to start when I checked one last time. So, this tube is copper nickel 90/10. no steel and no plating. Here is some information on it:

Nicorp CNC-350 3/16 (50ft spool) Seamless copper-nickel 90/10 tubing
OE specified, never rusts, easy bending
SAE J1650 certified


So I looked up that SAE number
J1650: Seamless Copper-Nickel 90-10 Tubing - SAE International

And it says for use in automotive hydraulic braking systems.

There is no mention of specific PSI ratings for this system, or the line for that matter.

I agree that substandard line should not be used, so onto figuring out if this will work or blow lol.

[chboone]

Never seen brake line tubing on a spool

[superk]

JEGS NiCopp Nickel Copper Brake Lines | JEGS High Performance

a review, apparantly its good stuff. strong as steel

[wackymac]

I stand corrected. You learn something new every day.

[chboone]

Sounds really good. Thanks for the education.

[superk]

I had no idea, was just going on the word of a reputable acquintance. I came here for additional opinions. I was skeptical myself, which is why I panicked when the thought of it bursting came to mind! Now we all know that it should be perfectly safe to use. After bleeding, I plan on leak testing the lines at high pressure, then again.

SO. A few mechanics I spoke to said that I can bleed the brakes myself, and if I am lucky, the abs will be happy, and if not, I will have to bring it to Ford to have the NGS tester connected to purge the air. Currently, I have an abs light on start up. The brake system has no leaks atm (as its capped and welded before leaks). I dont see the ABS getting rid of its own air. fairly certain I need the ngs tool. Thats ok, its worth it to have the dealer give it a look over after I am done anyways, just in case.

Even more oddly... I never did receive ANY form of brake light or other MIL. ABS light kicked in after the lines were sealed and dot3 added so I could limp home. Now its there on engine startup. Master cylinder still full both sides. Oddly enough one side did not leak at all, stayed full on the rear 'resevoir', while the front emptied.

[gatorb8]

Originally Posted by RolandRock

My 1996 F53 had plastic clips that held the main lines. The lines corroded through at the clips even though they were plastic. I replaced with lengths of coated steel lines and couplers to make up the long runs. I used 3/16" lines and parts.2 brass tees split the main feeds for right and left, it was easier than trying to remove all the old fittings on the old parts. All new flex hoses were also included. total parts cost was around $100. They also have a copper/nickel high flex solid line which they say you can match bends by hand without kinking sold on 50 ft. rolls. You have to add a flare tool and connections and the cost is about triple. Good quality line wrenches are a must have for this job ... also pb blaster and patience ..... Not that hard of a job as long as you don't mind spending the afternoon on your back under your MH.

my 09 F53 brake line failed exactly as you describe, rust where the plastic clips touch the brake line

[tiffy2000]

Originally Posted by superk

I had no idea, was just going on the word of a reputable acquintance. I came here for additional opinions. I was skeptical myself, which is why I panicked when the thought of it bursting came to mind! Now we all know that it should be perfectly safe to use. After bleeding, I plan on leak testing the lines at high pressure, then again.

SO. A few mechanics I spoke to said that I can bleed the brakes myself, and if I am lucky, the abs will be happy, and if not, I will have to bring it to Ford to have the NGS tester connected to purge the air. Currently, I have an abs light on start up. The brake system has no leaks atm (as its capped and welded before leaks). I dont see the ABS getting rid of its own air. fairly certain I need the ngs tool. Thats ok, its worth it to have the dealer give it a look over after I am done anyways, just in case.

Even more oddly... I never did receive ANY form of brake light or other MIL. ABS light kicked in after the lines were sealed and dot3 added so I could limp home. Now its there on engine startup. Master cylinder still full both sides. Oddly enough one side did not leak at all, stayed full on the rear 'resevoir', while the front emptied.

Try disconnecting your battery for a few minutes, that put the ABS light out on my rig after new calipers were installed