Shocks - Koni worth 2X Bilstein?

[Wizard]

I put Koni's on my x- F53, Wish I had my money back.

Finally got rid of the harsh ride by trading for a DP. Those Koni's would have helped a lot on the down payment.

[Dunner]

Originally Posted by 96 Wideglide

You must have taken your rig to a shop to have the shocks changed, cause the last step in Koni's instalation instructions, is to tighten all screws on both sun visors !

Originally Posted by KSCRUDE

That's a good one. But I don't even think there is a screw to tighten up on my sun visors. And I did it all my self which is half the fun.

That worked for me too. There is an Allen screw at each joint.

Will be paying attention to ride quality and may try the new Bilstein Comfitrac. The cement roads just west of Yuma on I-8 are no match for any shock.

[trode]

Ok, got under MH this past weekend to do oil and filter on the engine and genny, got the new Koni's out of the box and crawled underneath, couldn't loosen lower shock bolts laying on my back and did not have jack to raise to pull tire, instead called my local truck front end and alignment shop and asked about installing shocks I had purchased, he said "bring 'em in", $75 later the Koni's are on, front only at this point. So far, just ride home from shop, so good. The ride seems smoother and quieter on expansion joints and bumps, etc. Still not a limo, but much better. Turns out the shocks in there were Billsteins, the guy at the shop said to me "do you realize you are going from a gas shock to an oil filled shock?" I said, yes but doing it on the advice of my friends here!! He said "just saying, you may find them a little more stiff than the old shocks"

So far, so good. Have a 400 mile trip coming up this weekend on the miserable stretch of Hwy 17 between Georgetown and Charleston SC, that should help me determine if I am happy with the change.

Will check back

[TeJay]

Here's what you're supposed to do. We ordered the coach without sun visors. I know they will fall down from our last coach so I ordered the unit without them. Would you believe that it cost us $50 for what is called a, "Deviation fee." Somebody gets paid to not do their job. We are going to have the MCD dual shades installed down in McKinney, TX so we won't need the visors and i didn't want the holes.

As I've read these forums I'm guessing that about 10-20% say that the Koni shocks didn't help much. In regards to the Bilsteins does anybody know the part # of the shock that they are putting on the current coaches??

We all know that a manufacturer gets a contract from a builder to supply a part by submitting the lowest bid, so they make one just special for that unit when in fact they could make a better part but in order to win the contract they had to cut corners.

This is just a guess on my part but we all know that this does happen. Maybe the Winnebago coaches and others do advertise, "Bilstein shocks" and we are impressed because we know what it's going to cost to upgrade the OEM'S. I already had that figured in after we got our coach, then I find out that they come stock with Bilsteins.

It would be interesting to drive a new unit then install shocks that were ordered from Bilstein to check the ride difference. Having a part number would help. JM2CW

TeJay

[KSCRUDE]

Originally Posted by TeJay

Here's what you're supposed to do. We ordered the coach without sun visors. I know they will fall down from our last coach so I ordered the unit without them. Would you believe that it cost us $50 for what is called a, "Deviation fee." Somebody gets paid to not do their job. We are going to have the MCD dual shades installed down in McKinney, TX so we won't need the visors and i didn't want the holes.

As I've read these forums I'm guessing that about 10-20% say that the Koni shocks didn't help much. In regards to the Bilsteins does anybody know the part # of the shock that they are putting on the current coaches??

We all know that a manufacturer gets a contract from a builder to supply a part by submitting the lowest bid, so they make one just special for that unit when in fact they could make a better part but in order to win the contract they had to cut corners.

This is just a guess on my part but we all know that this does happen. Maybe the Winnebago coaches and others do advertise, "Bilstein shocks" and we are impressed because we know what it's going to cost to upgrade the OEM'S. I already had that figured in after we got our coach, then I find out that they come stock with Bilsteins.

It would be interesting to drive a new unit then install shocks that were ordered from Bilstein to check the ride difference. Having a part number would help. JM2CW

TeJay

Our rig came with the JUNK Bilstein shocks. After 800 miles I had enough of the crazy pounding and rough ride. Put on new Konis and it is a whole new world on the road. Our sun visors don't even have a set screw, but after the Konies went on they stay right where you put them. No more pounding down every few hours. Seeing is believing.

[Dunner]

Call Jose @ (858) 386-5900 for the Bilstein part number for your rig.

[chboone]

Does bilstein make the Comfitrac for the F53? I looked at their application guide and it did not show a P/N for them.

Chuck

[B Bob]

I have had both Koni and Bilstien on motorhomes I have owned. IMHO they are both good shocks. My experience also is that usually the extra cost of the Konis can be explained by how much larger they are than the Bilstien.

Our current motor home has 110,000 miles on it. The front Konis still working well. One of our rear Konis sprung a leak earlier this year and I replaced them. Getting that much milage out of them is impressive.

[Alan Wilson]

I cannot speak about the Bilstien shocks not ever having used them but when I made my decision I was told by several people the Koni shocks were the best ride. When I changed my shocks I kept the stock shocks just in case I wanted them back on. One drive and I threw them in the trash.

[trode]

OK the results are in, the Koni's are a big improvement over the shocks that were on there. I initially thought I still had OEM shocks, but upon removal realized that the were Bilstein gas shocks, I guess the prior owner must have put on. I am still happier with the Koni ride, there is noticeably better ride on minor imperfections, expansion joints and bumps, the occasional pot hole and large drop at bridges and overpasses is still jarring but better. I have gone from bam-bam to thump-thump. Not regretting change that is for sure.

Now if I only knew what is going on with electrical system. Posted at "Need an electrical system guru"

[xbcsutter]

Replaced my Bilstein shocks with 4 Koni's today. Biltstein's had lots of sway and jarring on pavement cracks. On test drive after install: Konis showed better sway control and softer ride. Purchased from Brazel's RV, great service, free shipping, they advertise on IRV2. Full recommendation from me!
https://www.brazelsrv.com/

[TeJay]

This may be more information than most of you want or need but if we are to talk shocks lets understand what we are talking about. I've used Bilsteins before and they worked. Others have and they didn't. I asked the question why??? Here's some of what I found out by talking to some shock designers.

If you want the correct shock set up you need to know how it is designed. So lets talk more about shock designs.

A shock is designed to control the compression and rebound of the leaf springs as it encounters all kinds of bumps, dips etc. Determining the exact design parameters or valving for a shock is difficult. If we choose a soft ride the coach feels mushy. If we choose stiff shock then we feel every crack. Most adds simply talk about how good their shocks work but don't explain the why or how it is done. Valving is used to control the fluid movement inside the shock both on compression, (hitting a bump) and rebound (the leaf spring resuming its arched shape after hitting a bump or dip) Both aspects have to be controlled to achieve good results. When you hit a dip on the left side of the coach that shock compresses but the opposite side expands. That expansion has to be dampened or controlled as well. I've been around cars for 50 years and for a long time I didn't think about what happens to the other side of the vehicle when we hit a bump. I only thought in terms of compression. To get good results we have to be concerned with compression and rebound.

In reality the weight of the chassis does play some part in the design of a shock not because the shock will controls the weight but a bump hit by a 16,000# chassis will react differently than a 24,000# chassis.

If a chassis is encountering a harsh ride hitting expansion joints in the road the compression and rebound dampening can be controlled by valving design changes. Softer compression valving reduces impact from expansion joints. Stiffer rebound valving controls cornering, braking and cross winds.

Maybe calling some tech support and asking questions about a particular shock would yield some answers as to how a shock is valved to reduce the compression and rebound of the suspension. Is it designed to be a stiff shock on compression or is it soft. Can it control wind deflection, sway etc?? Maybe a shock is designed to have a 50/50 set up. The compression and rebound are the same. Maybe 40-C & 60-R would be better to reduce expansion joint thumps. I don't know the answer. There probably is no one correct arrangement.

The use of air bags which work in parallel with the leaf springs will assist in reducing ride harshness experienced by hitting expansion joints and tar bumps so common on concrete roadways.

Unless you know how that valving is set up it is very difficult to compare one shock to another. If you change shocks then you can compare your two experiences but that won't help the next guy who has a different chassis. That's why we get different results when replacing shocks. We can use recommendations from others and that is what most of us do but that comes with its own set of problems. Within reason every coach has it's own set up and therefore we have to take that into consideration.

I think the following will go a long way in providing a decent or good ride. The CHF will help to increase sway control. According to Ford the outer hole is used to provide a softer (mushier) control. We now know that the inner hole will help with sway control. A front and rear track rod will help with chassis twisting. Then selecting a shock that will reduce the harshness with softer valving on compression and stiffer rebound control will help with the rebound of the spring which would help with sway.

I hope this helps to understand what the shock is trying to control. I know I now understand better exactly what is happening and what I can do to get a good soft but controlled ride. I will have a good riding coach. I enjoy the driving to much to not have it.

JM2CW
TeJay

[Dunner]

A lot of people say when they replace tires and/or shocks, their coach, car, truck or whatever rides better. Well, duh! Of course it does. There's more rubber between the ground and the carcase and they replaced a worn out shock. It should ride better.

[C-Leigh Racing]

Good write up there Tejay.
Ok, now after that, how about one of you Koni shock salesman on this site, tell us just how those Koni shocks are made inside, how they work & do what you all are saying.

The day that just a simple shock can remove a bump in the highway & you not feel it, will be the day when only folks like Donald Trump can afford those shocks.

Seems like everybody wants to put blame of their rv ride on a shock, but its really because of our crapply built highway, where the states took the moneys that was suppose to be used to build good highways & used it on something else, like vacations in the Hamptons & trips overseas.

For the size & weight of our M/Hs, to feel the effects of a shock like most are thinking, we would need at least 2 to 4 shocks on each corner, to remove some of the jolt from highway joints, plus the Ford chassis is spring ride & not air ride, so every bump, joint or pot hole, that effect will be transfered right into the frame rails & on into the coach body.

Even on some air ride coaches that I've drove, Fleetwood & Dutch Star, you feel those very same teeth jarring bumps & highway joints just like the spring ride Fords.

Neil