Starter will not turn

pierrem · 04-01-2010, 05:52 PM

Hi,

I have a 2006 Four Winds on the Ford E-450. When I turn on the key there is a clicking sound that comes from the battery isolator but nothing from the starter. Just to check if it was a bad starter I ran a booster cable from the battery + to the starter solenoid and the motor started right up. Now I would like to check the starter relay but I don't know where it is located.
Could someone tell me where to find it (if any) and if someone could post a picture of the relay so that I know what to look for?

Thanks,
Pierre

LVJ58 · 04-01-2010, 10:35 PM

Could you have someone turn the ignition key to the start position while you're in the area of the engine compartment then try to locate the solenoid from the clicking sound. Or, have you followed the large cable from the starter, it should terminate at the starter solenoid. Some starters have the solenoid attached to the starter.

Good hunting

pierrem · 04-02-2010, 07:29 AM

Thanks LVJ58,

Yes I did have someone turn the key and the clicking sound comes from the battery isolator.
There are three wires that are attached to the positive terminal. There is a big red one that seems to go to the starter. Then there is a smaller red one that seems to go to the battery isolator and a yellow one that goes under the battery tray. I removed the battery and tray to follow the yellow wire but it gets sliced into two yellow wires going between the grill and radiator. I'm trying to locate the starter relay but can't find any. Everyone says that it should be located near the battery but there is none.
There is a solenoid mounted on the strater, would that explain why there is no starter relay? Could it be controled within the fuse box?

Thanks,
Pierre

Ernie n Tara · 04-02-2010, 08:52 AM

The solenoid may well be on the starter. If it is, it will be a round part seperate from, but attached to the starter. The starter is round (~ 4-5" diameter) and about 8-14" long. If it is separate, the solenoid will be round, about 2-3" long and usually mounted with feet on the bottom. It will have two terminal's with heavy wires on them; one from the battery (via the isolator relay??) and one to the starter.
Ernie

subford · 04-02-2010, 10:16 AM

If the battery isolator is clicking then you have low voltage at the isolator. It sounds like you have a loose wire at the isolator. remove the NEG ground wire from the battery. Then check all of the small nuts and large nuts on the isolator. Do not over tighten but when you find the loose on I think your problems will be over.

The starter real is relay "K" in the Central Junction Box, Diagram below.

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LVJ58 · 04-02-2010, 12:09 PM

OK, use a voltmeter and check if you have any voltage on the solenoid terminal where the large red wire attaches that goes to the starter when the key is turned to the Start position.

If you get a 12v or slightly less reading then the problem may very well be you have an open circuit in your starter windings.

If the voltage drops drastically i.e., down to 6 or 7 v could be a short in the starter or it's locked up. It sounds like the solenoid you hear clicking could be the starter solenoid, but not sure.

subford · 04-02-2010, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LVJ58

OK, use a voltmeter and check if you have any voltage on the solenoid terminal where the large red wire attaches that goes to the starter when the key is turned to the Start position.

If you get a 12v or slightly less reading then the problem may very well be you have an open circuit in your starter windings.

If the voltage drops drastically i.e., down to 6 or 7 v could be a short in the starter or it's locked up. It sounds like the solenoid you hear clicking could be the starter solenoid, but not sure.

I think you need to reread this thread.
The OP said he could start the engine by running a jumper from the battery to the starter.
He is not getting any power on his small wire that activates the starter solenoid on the starter.
This wire is fed from the start relay "K" in the Central Junction Box.
The start relays coil is grounded by the PCM Computer.
Power is fed to the coil by the Ignition Switch.
In short here is a diagram that should be close to how it is wired:

/

LVJ58 · 04-02-2010, 02:21 PM

Hey subford, you're right, forgot about that, sorry. Got a bit confused when he mentioned a LARGE wire going from the clicking solenoid to the starter which I presumed to be the supply side wire to the starter motor. So it appears the clicking solenoid has an internal open when engaged and not supplying voltage to the starter solenoid, does that make any sense??

subford · 04-02-2010, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LVJ58

Hey subford, you're right, forgot about that, sorry. Got a bit confused when he mentioned a LARGE wire going from the clicking solenoid to the starter which I presumed to be the supply side wire to the starter motor. So it appears the clicking solenoid has an internal open when engaged and not supplying voltage to the starter solenoid, does that make any sense??

The wire in the diagram running from the battery to the Central Junction Box is the problem circuit. He has an battery isolator to brake that wire. He may have a bad battery isolator or loose wires on it. If he jumped the battery isolator the engine should start with the key. I do not know what brand battery isolator he has. He should have a button to push and the battery isolator should lock in and then he should be able to start it.
What would make a battery isolator chatter would be a guess. But I am thinking it is bad or has bad wiring or a bad ground to it.

LVJ58 · 04-02-2010, 04:07 PM

Well that makes sense, sure hope he get's the problem ferreted out without too much of a hassle.

pierrem · 04-02-2010, 07:08 PM

All good stuff guys.
I still have the problem but here is what I've done. The battery is new and reading 12.8v. I replaced the battery isolator with a new one and reading 12.8v. I also took out the fuse "K" and reading 12.8v so I swapped it with an other one, still nothing. So if I'm reading this right the problem is between the battery isolator and the starter solenoid. Could it be a bad ignition swich even if it's making the isolator click?
Correct me if I'm wrong but the wire provide 12v to the solenoid then a contact is made to the starter to get it spining. So if I go backwards, from the starter where does the wire attached to the starter solenoid go to?

Pierre

subford · 04-02-2010, 07:32 PM

The wire goes to a contact on Relay "K".
What do you mean by click?
Does it sound like a bunch of real fast clicks?
Or is there only one click each time you turn the key to start?

pierrem · 04-03-2010, 06:28 AM

Only one click from the battery isolator. If it's connected to fuse K then the battery isolator plays no part in spining the starter, right?
So the problem should be either the ignition swich or the wire from the fuse to the starter solenoid. I did disconnect the wire from the solenoid to clean it.

Pierre