Community Forums

twinboat · 08-25-2015, 08:44 PM

Are you storing with the battery off. Could it be re-learning the adaptive learning routine ?

Easy guys, I stayed at a Holiday Inn once.

Glenn NK · 08-25-2015, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat

Are you storing with the battery off. Could it be re-learning the adaptive learning routine ?

Easy guys, I stayed at a Holiday Inn once.

Were you replying to me?

I always store it with the truck battery isolated. What is "adaptive learning routine" as applied to a MH?

Glenn

twinboat · 08-26-2015, 04:41 AM

This was read from my 1999 E450 operators manual.

Shift Strategy ( 4R100)

To account for customer driving habits and conditions, your 4R100 automatic transmission electronically controls the shift quality by using an adaptive learning strategy. The adaptive learning strategy is maintained by power from the battery. When the battery is disconnected or a new battery is installed, the transmission must relearn its adaptive strategy. Optimal shifting will resume within a few hundred kilometers ( miles ) of operation.

Glenn NK · 08-26-2015, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat

This was read from my 1999 E450 operators manual.

Shift Strategy ( 4R100)

To account for customer driving habits and conditions, your 4R100 automatic transmission electronically controls the shift quality by using an adaptive learning strategy. The adaptive learning strategy is maintained by power from the battery. When the battery is disconnected or a new battery is installed, the transmission must relearn its adaptive strategy. Optimal shifting will resume within a few hundred kilometers ( miles ) of operation.

Well that is very interesting - I wasn't aware of that at all.

I've disconnected the battery the past seven years when at an RV park (or anywhere I think I won't be running it for more than five or six hours). Most days it's fine, but occasionally it's not.

It would seem strange that it would forget how to use the clutches, and as a result shift very roughly.

I'll give it a try. Thanks for the information.

Glenn

TeJay · 08-26-2015, 06:35 PM

Glenn,
If you have not read about the 5 Star tune you need to. There are several different threads concerning the TUNE and a lot of discussions regarding the adaptive strategies with the V-10 and the A/T involved.

The going price for the TUNE is $425. We have it and really like how the MH drives now. There was a group buy early this summer and it's cost went down to #369. They are offering another group buy as we speak. If it interests you now's the time.

TeJay

Glenn NK · 08-26-2015, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeJay

Glenn,
If you have not read about the 5 Star tune you need to. There are several different threads concerning the TUNE and a lot of discussions regarding the adaptive strategies with the V-10 and the A/T involved.

The going price for the TUNE is $425. We have it and really like how the MH drives now. There was a group buy early this summer and it's cost went down to #369. They are offering another group buy as we speak. If it interests you now's the time.

TeJay

What is 5 Star Tune, and what does it do?

When I bought my RV used, there was a small electonic part in a plastic bag that was labelled: TRANS SHIFT JUMP KIT. Have no idea what it is.

Glenn

TeJay · 08-27-2015, 05:31 AM

Glenn,
On any thread that has my handle, "TeJay" in the upper left corner just click on my name then click on, "Find more posts by TeJay." You should find the 5 Star Tune posts. I have no idea what the trans shift jump kit is.

TeJay

5 Star · 08-28-2015, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn NK

Were you replying to me?

I always store it with the truck battery isolated. What is "adaptive learning routine" as applied to a MH?

Glenn

The adaptive learning process is when the vehicle will learn your driving style, your inputs, etc. It is a way to compromise between those that are aggressive drivers vs. those that are more "normal" drivers. If you drive aggressively the rig will shift more aggressively. This is more common to see in trucks/cars as we typically see them being driven more aggressively. With it only occurring on occasion I do not see this being your issue. Curious on the shift kit itself... I do not see many used for these vehicles.

Mark Kovalsky · 08-28-2015, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5star

The adaptive learning process is when the vehicle will learn your driving style, your inputs, etc. It is a way to compromise between those that are aggressive drivers vs. those that are more "normal" drivers. If you drive aggressively the rig will shift more aggressively. This is more common to see in trucks/cars as we typically see them being driven more aggressively. With it only occurring on occasion I do not see this being your issue. Curious on the shift kit itself... I do not see many used for these vehicles.

That may be your observation, but from someone who worked on this software at Ford I can tell you that is NOT how it works.

The adaptive software does not look at how you drive. It only looks at how long each shift takes from command to completion. It then stores an adjustment to the pressure for the next shift at that speed and load to bring the clutch slip time back to the ideal time that the calibration engineer programmed into it.

A more aggressive driver will tend to fill in the adaptive tables in the higher speed/load region, while a more "normal" driver will fill in the lower speed/load portions. If a vehicle is driven by a "normal" driver, and later by an aggressive driver, the aggressive driver will not modify what was learned when the "normal" driver was in control.

Glenn NK · 08-28-2015, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky

That may be your observation, but from someone who worked on this software at Ford I can tell you that is NOT how it works.

The adaptive software does not look at how you drive. It only looks at how long each shift takes from command to completion. It then stores an adjustment to the pressure for the next shift at that speed and load to bring the clutch slip time back to the ideal time that the calibration engineer programmed into it.

A more aggressive driver will tend to fill in the adaptive tables in the higher speed/load region, while a more "normal" driver will fill in the lower speed/load portions. If a vehicle is driven by a "normal" driver, and later by an aggressive driver, the aggressive driver will not modify what was learned when the "normal" driver was in control.

Mark:

So the question is: does disconnecting the truck battery cause the transmission to shift roughly?

One would think that this would not cause the problem I have described. And that I should continue to try to find a solution.

The last two times I drove int (Tuesday and Thursday) it was fine.

Glenn

Mark Kovalsky · 08-28-2015, 08:38 AM

I could see where disconnecting the battery might cause some rough shifting, but it should clear up fairly quickly. In the owner's manual it talks about this, saying that some unusual shifting is possible after a battery disconnect.

In an ideal world it wouldn't happen. The calibration engineer (that was my job for many, many years) would program the computer to control the trans under all conditions and it would be set for life.

The reality is that not all transmissions are the same. No manufacturer can make a million transmissions and have them all the same. There are designed in tolerances on all measurements because no person or machine is perfect. These tolerances can add up and make transmission A react one way to the program, while transmission B reacts very differently. And as the parts age and wear their characteristics change. The adaptive software continually adjusts the pressure for each shift to try to make each transmission have the optimal slip time for each shift.

You might have a transmission that is on one end of the adaptive scale, so it takes several shifts to get the pressure back to where it needs to be.

wackymac · 08-28-2015, 09:15 AM

Glenn--
I have one of these ( see link below) installed on my transmission and it came with a plug-in device so you could restore the transmission to the stock shifting program. Maybe that's what you have in the plastic bag. Look around under the MH and follow the transmission wires. If you have the TransCommand, it will be a metal box about the size of a pack of cigarettes.

Banks Power | Why Add a TransCommand?

Glenn NK · 08-28-2015, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wackymac

Glenn--
I have one of these ( see link below) installed on my transmission and it came with a plug-in device so you could restore the transmission to the stock shifting program. Maybe that's what you have in the plastic bag. Look around under the MH and follow the transmission wires. If you have the TransCommand, it will be a metal box about the size of a pack of cigarettes.

Banks Power | Why Add a TransCommand?

I have the Banks system on my V10 - will check this out tomorrow and thanks for the tip.

Glenn

ga traveler · 08-28-2015, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn NK

Did your tranny do this occasionally like mine does? I'm taking it to the RV dealer for some leveling jack work to day - I'll be watching the tranny shifting (impossible to not notice if it's acting up).

Any one else use Lube Gard? What is it?

I've seen the Liqui Moly product for trannys. I use the Liqui-Moly in my engines (BMW and Triton) - it utilizes molybdenum disulfide, a highly effective lubricant.

My BMW service garage will only use Liqui-Moly for oil changes; it meets the oil specs for the German made cars.

Glenn

Lube Gard is a lubricant. Transmission fluid used to be made with whale oil as a lubricant. When whale fishing was outlawed the fluid manufacturers scrambled to find something as good as whale oil. It took a while but the manufacturer of Lube Gard came up with something as good. It basically allows the valves to slide easier. I had several different transmission guys recommend it. I was telling my parts man about it and he said he did not know anything about it, but he said Aamco transmission bought it by the case.