Tow vehicle not charging from RV

[John Hilley]

Originally Posted by Ramona

RV Tech said he could tap into electric at the generator and then run it to the 7-pin.
So far, we haven't had any problems with the toad battery going dead, but we also haven't taken any long long trips, either.
At the moment, I am leaning toward getting this power supply and powering the toad's supplemental brake system with it:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JRDV81K...v_ov_lig_dp_it


I was thinking that having something like that could come in pretty handy at home and on the road...
Thoughts?

When I set mine up, I thought about doing that way as it is the closest source of 12 VDC. I decided dnot to though because it comes from the house battery and not the chassis battery. I didn't want to add more to the battery isolation solenoid. Ran a wire from the chassis battery, not a whole lot more work.

[TeJay]

I'm not to impressed with your RV tech. In your first post you said he checked and verified everything and it was all OK. Then in post #6 he said he checked the 12 V connector and it wasn't working. It's either working or it's not what is it??? Those are very mixed messages.

The voltage at the RV connector (key on) will read the engine or chassis battery voltage of 12.4 or so volts. When the engine is running it will read 13.6 or so volts not 12 volts. While it may not seem like a big difference it is. It's actually reading the alternators voltage output which will be going to the chassis battery as well as the TOAD charging wire if it's hooked up correctly.

We stopped using the word generator 50 years ago when we switched to an AC alternator which delivers an AC output converted to a DC voltage.

There is a drawing somewhere on the RV female connector indicating which pin is the 12 volt charging voltage. That's easily verified as was indicated by several posters. But you need to check it with the RV key off, key on, then engine running. It should read in order 0 volts, 12-volts (static or engine off) then 13.6 engine running and charging voltage.

Electrical issues need to be checked and verified carefully and in a step by step process unless you want to just going in circles chasing your tail. If you own an RV you need to become more familiar with these very simple procedures of checking and verifying voltages.

[Polyian]

Originally Posted by l1v3fr33ord1

This is probably the time to tell you that Ford does not provide a 12V charge line on the F-53 chassis.

Not entirely accurate...On my 2012 F53 Chassis the 12 volt charge wire was taped to the wiring harness about a foot short of the 7 pin connector. The other end of this wire is under the dash taped near the trailer wiring harness so it can be connected to one of the empty switched fuse locations. Ford left the wire taped to the harness to be connected either by the coach builder or the owner. I connected mine and it works fine.


It could be possible that Ford did not supply this charge wire on earlier F53 models, I can't speak to other years.

[Ljwt330]

Originally Posted by TeJay

I'm not to impressed with your RV tech. In your first post you said he checked and verified everything and it was all OK. Then in post #6 he said he checked the 12 V connector and it wasn't working. It's either working or it's not what is it??? Those are very mixed messages.

The voltage at the RV connector (key on) will read the engine or chassis battery voltage of 12.4 or so volts. When the engine is running it will read 13.6 or so volts not 12 volts. While it may not seem like a big difference it is. It's actually reading the alternators voltage output which will be going to the chassis battery as well as the TOAD charging wire if it's hooked up correctly.

We stopped using the word generator 50 years ago when we switched to an AC alternator which delivers an AC output converted to a DC voltage.

There is a drawing somewhere on the RV female connector indicating which pin is the 12 volt charging voltage. That's easily verified as was indicated by several posters. But you need to check it with the RV key off, key on, then engine running. It should read in order 0 volts, 12-volts (static or engine off) then 13.6 engine running and charging voltage.

Electrical issues need to be checked and verified carefully and in a step by step process unless you want to just going in circles chasing your tail. If you own an RV you need to become more familiar with these very simple procedures of checking and verifying voltages.

I agree with everything you posted, but with respect, I believe you misread some of the postings.

The OP had the tech check the toad wiring and the harness (cord) to the toad and they both checked out O.K., that was in post 1. In post 6, the tech checked the RV socket for voltage and found none. No mixed messages there--toad and cord were good, socket connection for power was "bad."

I took the comment about the generator to mean the DC generator for the coach power supply, not the alternator for the chassis. I could be wrong, but that's how I envisioned the comment. If the generator is in the rear, it makes sense.


Please don't think I'm nit-picking your post, I'm not and I think, overall, it is very astute. It's just that you came down pretty hard on the tech and it seems that was due to a misreading of the posts.

[theoldwizard]

All of these values listed below can be off by +/- 0.15V depending on the accuracy of your meter.

Assuming the battery is good, lack of charging is almost always caused by low charging voltage. A fully charged battery, at "rest", that has been off of the charger for at least 30 minutes, should read between 12.6V and 13.2V. If it reads 12.0V or less, when at rest or under a "properly sized" load, it needs to be charged.

A 12V lead acid battery, needs and minimum of 13.2V in order to store energy in the battery. Realistically, it should be 13.8V-14.2V or maybe even a bit higher.

If your toad is NOT charging, it is likely that you will need a DC-DC battery charger installed. It will boost the incoming voltage from the tow vehicles when it as low as 11.0V to the proper charging voltage.

Bigger, heavier wires help, but will NOT fully solve the problem.

[BCam]

IMHO, you're going to be much better off with a proper charging circuit. Using a portable jump starter is an unsatisfactory work-around. The batteries in them are pretty small and won't add that much capacity to your toad's battery.

Hopefully, as has been suggested, you might have a charging wire in place that just needs hooking up. If not, I'm sure someone will chime in with how their factory installed circuit is connected on their F53 chassis.

In any case, you wouldn't want it to run directly from your chassis battery as one poster suggested, since you want it to be switched on and off via the ignition switch. Otherwise it will be a drain on your chassis battery while you're parked.

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Originally Posted by Polyian

Not entirely accurate...On my 2012 F53 Chassis the 12 volt charge wire was taped to the wiring harness about a foot short of the 7 pin connector.

...

It could be possible that Ford did not supply this charge wire on earlier F53 models, I can't speak to other years.

Hmm... interesting. The 2012 Ford F-53 owner's manual (link here) does not mention a charge line, or its relay(s) or fuse(s). That's in contrast to the E-450 (Class C) chassis, where it does list "trailer tow battery charge" components in the two fuse boxes. Not trying to pick a fight, though.

In the past, Newmar has provided an orange and a black wire (both 14 AWG), stub-cut, from under the dash to near the hitch connector. Newmar left the 12V charge line pin in the hitch connector with no wire attached to it. Some folks used one or both of the orange and black wires to create a charge line. See these threads:

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/bay-...ug-307114.html
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/2016...ar-308487.html

[Polyian, your post on using the orange and black wires is #6 on the first thread (link here).]

At the moment, we've not heard back from the OP concerning the results of his tests at the hitch connector.

[Ramona]

Originally Posted by TeJay

I'm not to impressed with your RV tech. In your first post you said he checked and verified everything and it was all OK. Then in post #6 he said he checked the 12 V connector and it wasn't working. It's either working or it's not what is it??? Those are very mixed messages.

Don't be unimpressed with the RV Tech, be un-impressed with me—apparently as much as I try, I do not communicate as well as I would like.

[Ramona]

Originally Posted by TeJay

We stopped using the word generator 50 years ago when we switched to an AC alternator which delivers an AC output converted to a DC voltage.

When I said "the generator", I meant the generator. I know the difference between between an alternator, the generator I had on my 1964 Ford Galaxie, and the generator on board the RV.

[Ramona]

Originally Posted by l1v3fr33ord1

At the moment, we've not heard back from the OP concerning the results of his tests at the hitch connector.

May or may not get to the RV this weekend to check the voltage at hitch connector.
Next trip not for two weeks so no big hurry.
One thing I know for sure—I am not taking the RV to the Ford Dealer for this problem alone. Don't think they'll be helpful. Newmar is pointing at Ford. I imagine that Ford might point to Newmar.

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Ralph-

To the extent you can bring yourself to poke at a new coach, you may want to be prepared to examine the back of the hitch connector to see how many wires of what colors go into it. Or, if the bundle leads to a nearby, mid-bundle connector, how many wires in the connector. This may require lying on your back under the rear of the coach, with a headlamp or flashlight. I use a piece of cardboard to slide under the coach for these investigations. And gloves, to keep my wimpy hands clean.

I do not recommend opening up the hitch connector (on your new coach), just yet.

All this assumes your tests show no 12V at the one o'clock pin, with the engine running.

[Ramona]

Originally Posted by l1v3fr33ord1

Ralph-

To the extent you can bring yourself to poke at a new coach, you may want to be prepared to examine the back of the hitch connector to see how many wires of what colors go into it. Or, if the bundle leads to a nearby, mid-bundle connector, how many wires in the connector. This may require lying on your back under the rear of the coach, with a headlamp or flashlight. I use a piece of cardboard to slide under the coach for these investigations. And gloves, to keep my wimpy hands clean.

I do not recommend opening up the hitch connector (on your new coach), just yet.

All this assumes your tests show no 12V at the one o'clock pin, with the engine running.

Thanks, I will !
Probably Tuesday before I get over there again, though.

[TeJay]

Larry330,

No offense taken. We all get things wrong. When we don't try to solve these issues is perhaps a greater offense.

I'm still thinking he needs to follow these three simple troubleshooting steps verify, verify and then verify exactly what he has and does not have and where. There are many good comments and suggestions but focusing on what is and is not happening will solve his issues sooner.

Ramona, Sorry I messed up the generator comment.

[vettenuts]

Newmar provides a wiring diagram with their coaches. Mine specifically showed the wires that were run but were not connected on the diagram. I had to fish them out of some electrical tape just in front of the seven pin and make the connection myself. I suspect if you have a Newmar you have a similar setup.