Using the correct brake fluid

[rjsupersonic]

I picked up some brake fluid at a Ford dealer for my F-53 chassis the parts guy assured me it was the correct fluid (DOT 4). Well come to find out no it isn't . My owners manual specifically calls for Super DOT 4 fluid which turns out is not the same as DOT 4. The heavy chassis requires a higher boiling point fluid. After calling 3 Ford dealers all were clueless and gave me wrong answers. I found the right stuff on Amazon (Motorcraft DOT 5.1 fluid )which replaces the Super DOT 4 this is required for the Hydromax brake system on any chassis over 18,000 LBS. All other fluids can cause damage to your system. I wanted to post this for other people adding or changing there fluid. Sometimes you can't trust people to give you the correct information even if they work at Ford.

[mel s]

Originally Posted by rjsupersonic

I picked up some brake fluid at a Ford dealer for my F-53 chassis the parts guy assured me it was the correct fluid (DOT 4). Well come to find out no it isn't . My owners manual specifically calls for Super DOT 4 fluid which turns out is not the same as DOT 4. The heavy chassis requires a higher boiling point fluid. After calling 3 Ford dealers all were clueless and gave me wrong answers. I found the right stuff on Amazon (Motorcraft DOT 5.1 fluid )which replaces the Super DOT 4 this is required for the Hydromax brake system on any chassis over 18,000 LBS. All other fluids can cause damage to your system. I wanted to post this for other people adding or changing there fluid. Sometimes you can't trust people to give you the correct information even if they work at Ford.

rjsupersonic
Be careful!
Make sure you get DOT 4 or DOT 5.1 brake fluid....DOT 5 is not compatible with DOT 4 and may damage your hydraulic brake system.
See: What is the Difference between DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 Brake Fluid? | Epic Bleed Solutions
Mel
'96 Safari

[rjsupersonic]

Absolutely 5.1 They sell it on Amazon it specifically indicates that it is for the F-53 chassis with the Hydromax brake system. I have a feeling many people are using the wrong stuff. Also do not use the basic DOT 4 it must be the ( Super DOT 4) which I don't think motorcraft makes anymore.

[Pirate]

I recall having to order too. Ford dealer was clueless.

[SuperGewl]

AutoZone sell the right stuff

[Hikerdogs]

There is no DOT specification for Super 4.0 brake fluid. There is only a MINIMUM specification for DOT 4.0 brake fluid. The minimum boiling point for DOT 4.0 brake fluid is 446*F. The minimum wet boiling point (3.7% water) is 311*F

"In the United States, all brake fluids must meet Standard No. 116; Motor vehicle brake fluids.[1] Under this standard there are three Department of Transportation (DOT) minimum specifications for brake fluid. They are DOT 3, DOT 4, and DOT 5.1".

http://www.sector111.com/images/prod...ke%20Fluid.pdf

The manufacturers can formulate their fluid for wet and dry boiling points above the minimums if they choose to. They can market it with any surname they choose as long as it meets the DOT 4.0 minimum standards.

For example Pentosin. Makes both DOT 4:
http://www.pentosin.net/specsheets/Pentosin_Dot4_LV.pdf

and DOT super 4:
http://www.pentosin.net/specsheets/P...SuperDot_4.pdf

brake fluids. They both have the same dry boiling point of 509*F. The only significant difference is the DOT Super 4 has a wet boiling point of 329*F while the DOT4 has a wet boiling point of 338*F.

In this case the DOT 4.0 formula is more resistant to boiling (brake fade) than the Super DOT4.0 fluid. It's also slightly less viscous at lower temperatures and has less alkalinity.

[rjsupersonic]

Originally Posted by Hikerdogs

There is no DOT specification for Super 4.0 brake fluid. There is only a MINIMUM specification for DOT 4.0 brake fluid. The minimum boiling point for DOT 4.0 brake fluid is 446*F. The minimum wet boiling point (3.7% water) is 311*F

"In the United States, all brake fluids must meet Standard No. 116; Motor vehicle brake fluids.[1] Under this standard there are three Department of Transportation (DOT) minimum specifications for brake fluid. They are DOT 3, DOT 4, and DOT 5.1".

http://www.sector111.com/images/prod...ke%20Fluid.pdf

The manufacturers can formulate their fluid for wet and dry boiling points above the minimums if they choose to. They can market it with any surname they choose as long as it meets the DOT 4.0 minimum standards.

For example Pentosin. Makes both DOT 4:
http://www.pentosin.net/specsheets/Pentosin_Dot4_LV.pdf

and DOT super 4:
http://www.pentosin.net/specsheets/P...SuperDot_4.pdf

brake fluids. They both have the same dry boiling point of 509*F. The only significant difference is the DOT Super 4 has a wet boiling point of 329*F while the DOT4 has a wet boiling point of 338*F.

In this case the DOT 4.0 formula is more resistant to boiling (brake fade) than the Super DOT4.0 fluid. It's also slightly less viscous at lower temperatures and has less alkalinity.

Good post, my Ford manual advises not to use DOT 4 in the Hydromax brake system or damage may occur. That's why I started to research it, the safe bet is to use the Ford DOT 5.1 which is formulated for the F-53 chassis and replaces the old Super DOT 4. I try to use all Motorcraft parts and fluids whenever I can.

[Sweetbriar]

Average dealership probably has no idea what an F53 chassis is. You really need to contact a Ford heavy truck dealer or service center for correct info. Need help with an F150, a Fusion or Explorer not a problem. Get into the big stuff beyond an F350 and your neighborhood dealership will be of limited help.

[Geocritter]

My brother called me during the middle of his vacation in the Sierra Nevada’s in a panic telling me he’d lost his brakes due to overheating several times. I ended up rebuilding his brake system for him as well as replacing his 20 year old DOT 3 with DOT 5.1. He hasn’t had a problem with brake fade since. I replaced the DOT 3 in my 33’ 1994 Holiday Rambler with DOT 5.1 before I went on my 5,417 mile Grand Western North America Tour and Shakedown Journey. Even though I smoked my brakes on one very long downgrade, that I admittedly took to fast, I had no trouble with brake fad.

FWIW I looked up DOT 5.1 on O’Reilly’s Auto Parts website, but when I tried to order it from them at their local store they were totally unaware of its existence and told me they didn’t sell it until I showed them the page I’d printed from their own company website. I'm sold on it.

[rjsupersonic]

Originally Posted by Geocritter

My brother called me during the middle of his vacation in the Sierra Nevada’s in a panic telling me he’d lost his brakes due to overheating several times. I ended up rebuilding his brake system for him as well as replacing his 20 year old DOT 3 with DOT 5.1. He hasn’t had a problem with brake fade since. I replaced the DOT 3 in my 33’ 1994 Holiday Rambler with DOT 5.1 before I went on my 5,417 mile Grand Western North America Tour and Shakedown Journey. Even though I smoked my brakes on one very long downgrade, that I admittedly took to fast, I had no trouble with brake fad.

FWIW I looked up DOT 5.1 on O’Reilly’s Auto Parts website, but when I tried to order it from them at their local store they were totally unaware of its existence and told me they didn’t sell it until I showed them the page I’d printed from their own company website. I'm sold on it.

I just ordered some 5.1 on Amazon free shipping with prime and I get it in 2 days!!

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by Geocritter

My brother called me during the middle of his vacation in the Sierra Nevada’s in a panic telling me he’d lost his brakes due to overheating several times. I ended up rebuilding his brake system for him as well as replacing his 20 year old DOT 3 with DOT 5.1. He hasn’t had a problem with brake fade since. I replaced the DOT 3 in my 33’ 1994 Holiday Rambler with DOT 5.1 before I went on my 5,417 mile Grand Western North America Tour and Shakedown Journey. Even though I smoked my brakes on one very long downgrade, that I admittedly took to fast, I had no trouble with brake fad.

FWIW I looked up DOT 5.1 on O’Reilly’s Auto Parts website, but when I tried to order it from them at their local store they were totally unaware of its existence and told me they didn’t sell it until I showed them the page I’d printed from their own company website. I'm sold on it.

So, was it the "NEW" fluid or the "NEW TYPE" of fluid that cured the problem.

Sounds like, they just needed a fluid change.

It may take, over 20 years, to know.

[mel s]

Originally Posted by Geocritter

My brother called me during the middle of his vacation in the Sierra Nevada’s in a panic telling me he’d lost his brakes due to overheating several times.
I ended up rebuilding his brake system for him as well as replacing his 20 year old DOT 3 with DOT 5.1. He hasn’t had a problem with brake fade since.
I replaced the DOT 3 in my 33’ 1994 Holiday Rambler with DOT 5.1 before I went on my 5,417 mile Grand Western North America Tour and Shakedown Journey. Even though I smoked my brakes on one very long downgrade, that I admittedly took to fast, I had no trouble with brake fad.
FWIW I looked up DOT 5.1 on O’Reilly’s Auto Parts website, but when I tried to order it from them at their local store they were totally unaware of its existence and told me they didn’t sell it until I showed them the page I’d printed from their own company website. I'm sold on it.

Geocritter
While DOT 5.1 brake fluid might be slightly better than DOT 3 or DOT 4...it is A LOT BETTER than 20 year old DOT 3.
IMO anyone who has 20 year old brake fluid in his hydraulic brake system deserves to have brake fade.
Mel
'96 Safari

Originally Posted by twinboat

So, was it the "NEW" fluid or the "NEW TYPE" of fluid that cured the problem.
Sounds like, they just needed a fluid change.
It may take, over 20 years, to know.

twinboat
I agree.

[Geocritter]

Go easy on my brother. He and I are polar opposite's when it comes to things mechanical. Still, he's a great guy and I love him. As far as his RV is concerned he'd just bought it and was taking it on his first trip, he should've replaced the brake fluid but he didn't know any better. I live in Texas he lives in California so I wasn't close by to advise him. I had to fly out to rebuild his brake system.

Steve

[rjsupersonic]

I just found out you can get the Pentosin brand of super DOT 4 at Orielly's Auto Parts you may have to call ahead but they can get it the next day. I liter for 14.00 . The Super DOT has a boiling point of 509 degrees.