V-10 frustration

[trode]

I have, as seen on my profile, 2004 Sea Breeze on 2003 F-53 chassis. I have posted before about issues with rough running, surging, and power loss. I heeded some advice about using fuel conditioner, since rig sits for extended periods (1-2 months). The issue is very inconsistent, several months back when I stopped in to check on things, the engine would not run smoothly at all, idled roughly, stumbled on acceleration (in neutral, did not drive), couple of weeks later I went back and it started and idled smoothly, then after a few miles of running would be back to stumbling on light acceleration, surging at low rpms with fairly steady throttle, and usually smoothing on harder acceleration. I put in a few cans of Seafoam, as recommended by some. Then,after that trip I took rig to shop, had some other work done, but asked them to check on this, they said they could not reproduce on test drive, and scanned and found no stored codes. I had them change the fuel filter (again) as a safeguard. I took a 1,200 mile trip that she ran very well for, few moments of surging and stumbling, but very minimal and few. This past weekend I went and got rig, started and idled fine, and almost immediately on driving displayed the same issues again. I hoped it would smooth back out after few minutes but didn't. I drove about 30 miles and it acted up at every light and slowdown. I stopped and put in 30 gallons of fresh fuel at this point hoping for improvement, as has happened before. Same symptoms immediately, stumbling and surging on light acceleration, but smoothed out under moderate to heavy acceleration. I could feel the stumbling on light acceleration at speed too (accelerating from 45 -50 to 55). Getting frustrated and looking for the voice of experience here.

One thing I can add is that I noticed while sitting at light I could hear "static tick" on AM radio in sync with engine speed, like you would get years ago if you used plugs without resistor. Makes me suspicious of a spark leak at the insulators from the coils to plugs, or maybe a plug issue. Thoughts here.

I have to work on getting to the bottom of this but do not want to start throwing expensive repairs at it. Looking for ideas about things like TPS, MAS, coils, plugs, insulators, etc.. Not sure where to begin.

Looking forward to responses.

[Waiter21]

Thoughts:

Get a OBCII wifi or bluetooth transmitter. Load the Torque app on your smartphone, this way you can monitor for any codes being set real time.

I plan on replacing the cam and crank sensors as a low cost preventative maintenance. These are low cost, $15 each..

Clean the MAF (Mass air flow) sensor. (Its located in the air filter flute)

Replace all 10 plugs, consider replacing all 10 COPs. Note - The ECM does a reasonably good job of catching misfires, but not always. use only the autolite nickle plated plugs. torque to 25 ft lbs.

Inspect vacuum hoses and intake tube for any dry cracking or powder black residue. Replace hoses (vacuum leaks)

Long shot -- get a #10 cable, attach one end somewhere on one of the heads and the other end on the battery minus terminal.

[Ret.LEO]

Injectors?

[JIMBO34PA]

Sounds like coils or plugs. Unknown miles . If you can access a Ford or good scan tool you can see Mode 6 data which includes misfire monitor . That tells you which cylinder/s man be dropping out. You man be able to tune to a low frequency on Am in between stations, where you hear the clicking . Then unplug a coil one at a time to see if click changes . Then I would check coil and plug looking for carbon tracking or burnt boot. If 50k miles or above you might consider all the plugs and make sure they are installed tight. Motorcraft plugs only or you are asking for headaches .

[TeJay]

Tom,

You are driving an 03 F-53 chassis with a V-10. I'm almost certain you are experiencing issues similar to other vehicles of that age. The V-10 has a COP ignition system design. That's C oil O ver P lug or COP. Each cylinder has a coil bolted on top of the spark plug and there's a 12-Volt wire going to each coil to eliminate secondary circuit insulation breakdown which we all experienced before these changes. Spark plug wires had to carry thousands of volts of energy from the distributor cap to the plugs.

You may be experiencing an injector issue but first eliminate any change that it's an ignition issue. Besides it's time to change that stuff anyway regardless of the miles but for sure based on time.

The COP design eliminates that insulation issue with the wires but does not eliminate the insulation break down that still perhaps occurs within each ignition coil.

Anytime we accelerate or climb a hill the energy needed to jump the plug gap increases. When that happens the potential of that energy going to ground causes misfires. If those misfires are random sometimes the CODES are not set as was intended.

If this were my RV I'd start by changing all the plugs and coils. You can buy aftermarket coils in the range of $10 to $20 each. A dealer will charge you more than double that. Many have purchased aftermarket and were happy. They may not be as high quality as stock but if they work who cares?

I'd change the plugs because they may or may not be original so what. That's a relatively simple DIY project so just do it. Get new good pugs in there and you know they are good.

If you change the above two items (ignition coils & plugs) you have eliminated most any chance that you are having a secondary insulation high voltage leak to ground.

Forget about changing the fuel filter again. I hate that suggestion. Why? In my 40 years of working on all kinds of vehicles maybe 2 or 3 times it really was a plugged fuel filter. You symptoms do not suggest a plugged/restricted fuel filter.

Let us now how it works out.

[nothermark]

On that vintage doesn't he have the 4 thread heads so want to at least know where to get some thread repair kits?

[Bob Hyatt]

Originally Posted by TeJay

Tom,

You are driving an 03 F-53 chassis with a V-10. I'm almost certain you are experiencing issues similar to other vehicles of that age. The V-10 has a COP ignition system design. That's C oil O ver P lug or COP. Each cylinder has a coil bolted on top of the spark plug and there's a 12-Volt wire going to each coil to eliminate secondary circuit insulation breakdown which we all experienced before these changes. Spark plug wires had to carry thousands of volts of energy from the distributor cap to the plugs.

You may be experiencing an injector issue but first eliminate any change that it's an ignition issue. Besides it's time to change that stuff anyway regardless of the miles but for sure based on time.

The COP design eliminates that insulation issue with the wires but does not eliminate the insulation break down that still perhaps occurs within each ignition coil.

Anytime we accelerate or climb a hill the energy needed to jump the plug gap increases. When that happens the potential of that energy going to ground causes misfires. If those misfires are random sometimes the CODES are not set as was intended.

If this were my RV I'd start by changing all the plugs and coils. You can buy aftermarket coils in the range of $10 to $20 each. A dealer will charge you more than double that. Many have purchased aftermarket and were happy. They may not be as high quality as stock but if they work who cares?

I'd change the plugs because they may or may not be original so what. That's a relatively simple DIY project so just do it. Get new good pugs in there and you know they are good.

If you change the above two items (ignition coils & plugs) you have eliminated most any chance that you are having a secondary insulation high voltage leak to ground.

Forget about changing the fuel filter again. I hate that suggestion. Why? In my 40 years of working on all kinds of vehicles maybe 2 or 3 times it really was a plugged fuel filter. You symptoms do not suggest a plugged/restricted fuel filter.

Let us now how it works out.

Note that you can buy the silicone/rubber boots without replacing the coils. Much cheaper. Reasonably common to see a split in the bottom end near the plug tip where it is stretched. Also if you get a leak around the cam/valve cover at the spark plug opening, you can get standing oil in there which makes the spark jump to ground even easier.

[trode]

52k miles

[JIMBO34PA]

52k miles Change the plugs!before they blow out anyway! Look for carbon tracking . Crank the engine over with sparkplugs out to blow the crap out of the wells . Look for carbon tracking on porcelain . Replace boots as necessary.

[Zigzag03]

Originally Posted by JIMBO34PA

52k miles Change the plugs!before they blow out anyway! Look for carbon tracking . Crank the engine over with sparkplugs out to blow the crap out of the wells . Look for carbon tracking on porcelain . Replace boots as necessary.

Don't like that method, what blows out also sucks in. Pull the coil, blow out with compressed air, loosen plug and unwind part way, blow one more time.

And by all means watch several of the numerous YouTube vids on this subject.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[nothermark]

Originally Posted by JIMBO34PA

52k miles Change the plugs!before they blow out anyway! Look for carbon tracking . Crank the engine over with sparkplugs out to blow the crap out of the wells . Look for carbon tracking on porcelain . Replace boots as necessary.

The plugs are good for 100,000. What is probably biting him is the age on one or more coil packs.

[Waiter21]

The plugs are good for 100,000. What is probably biting him is the age on one or more coil packs.

Agree - Mine are almost 20 years old (1999) and only have 60k on them. I will run them until they fail, At the first sign of misfires, I'll replace all the plugs and COPS. Mark the COPs as to what cylinder they came out of and throw them in the spare parts box

[hohenwald48]

Originally Posted by nothermark

The plugs are good for 100,000. What is probably biting him is the age on one or more coil packs.

I agree, as far as I know, plugs don't "age out" like rubber parts.

I bought a tank of fuel at a station where the gas delivery truck was filling the storage tanks. He must have stirred up all the stuff in the tank and then I pumped it into my gas tank. Took about 6 fuel filter changes about every other day to get the thing running right again. Every fuel filter was almost completely clogged.

[billyb]

I had 32h miles on my old unit, 08, and it was missing slightly. I tried new coils on one side, still missing put the old coils on the other side, still missing, pulled the plugs and found 2 had cracked porcelin. 100 k plugs , joke