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Old 06-21-2014, 12:52 AM   #15
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As a factory trained Ford tech I have seen multiple warranties be voided because of modifacations , even had one fool who blew up his Mustang at the drag strip bring it into the shop with the Nitros bottle still in the trunk. There are alot of outside shops that are equipped with an IDS ( I own one )that can and will reflash your PCM to either a newer calibration or the original which should remove any sins you commited . I guess what I am trying to say is that there is always a way around most situations . The reason I suggested a code reader rather than having someone reflash it is that Ford can and does observe technicians performing diagnostic proceedures over the internet , a code reader cannot be detected by Ford. Mark you can wade in here if I am wrong . As a technician I would advise my customers to remove everything aftermarket before bringing it to me for warranty drivability concerns , if I didn't see it on the car I didn't have to worry about whether it was or not caused by aftermarket parts. The capability of Fords onboard computer systems is amazing , as an example I can do a compression test without removing any spark plugs plus many other cool things. Am I advising anyone to do anything illegal, NO but I do not want customers to suffer because they are trying to get a few more tenths of a gallon better fuel milage. As far as increasing the HP or torque slightly on a motorhome causing severe damage , most folks do not hotrod their motorhomes , unless your aftermarket unit is defective and it directly caused the damage I could not see anything wrong with using it.
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Old 06-21-2014, 07:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragvw2180 View Post
reflash your PCM to either a newer calibration or the original which should remove any sins you commited .
A reflash WILL NOT remove the code that says too much power has been produced. Either will replacing the PCM with a new one! The code is not stored in the PCM.

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Originally Posted by dragvw2180 View Post
I do not want customers to suffer because they are trying to get a few more tenths of a gallon better fuel milage.
I don't want anyone to lose their warranty coverage. I do want people to understand what CAN happen if they modify their vehicle. Once they understand the potential consequences they can make their own choice. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, just what COULD happen as a result of their choices.

Installing something that raises fuel economy will not set the code that I was describing above. That test only looks at maximum power output.

I used to develop engine calibrations. That means I programmed the fuel injection and spark advance. I never worked on diesel engines, only gas.

A calibration (commonly called the tunes) that only increases fuel economy seems harmless enough.It can cause serious damage. I said it can, not that it will.

One way to increase mileage is to slightly advance the spark timing. If you run a higher octane gas this will probably work. I'll leave it to someone else to calculate if the higher cost of the fuel is offset by the higher fuel economy. It doesn't matter to this discussion. If you don't run a higher octane, or the person that created the tune went a bit too far with the spark advance, you run the risk of detonation or preignition. Either one of those can punch a hole right through a piston. If this happened is it Ford's responsibility to replace the engine under warranty? I don't think so.

Can this really happen? I've done it. While developing engine calibrations sometimes I got a bit aggressive trying to squeeze every possible MPG out of an engine. Sometimes they had to be replaced and a bit less spark advance used. This was all done during development, we had a very strict procedure to make sure something like this didn't make it into the field.

The same thing applies to leaning out the mixture a bit. That will increase fuel economy, but the pistons and valves can get quite a bit hotter, uo to the point of failure.
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky View Post
It's OK that you don't believe me. I've chosen to not clarify how it works.

Sorry Mark, I meant to say that I DO believe you... I was just looking for clarification.. typo.. no offense intended.


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Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky View Post
I don't agree with you. Why would adding power NOT void the warranty? The drive line was designed to live with the stock power. If you add power and something breaks I don't see that as the manufacturer's problem. The warranty is there to protect for defects. Failures because there is more power than stock isn't a defect, it's operator error. That should not be covered by warranty.
Power adders? Sure... 30-100% more power and torque than stock, absolutely... For those that don't know - these are turbos, nitrous, superchargers, big stuff...

Apply the same thing to a K&N or set of headers. Do those void power-train warranties?

And a tune can make more power - I'm talking about non-turbo motors here - which means they're usually changing the timing map or adjusting fuel slightly... For non-turbos, I don't see that voiding a rear-end warranty. Turbos are different.

I guess you're indicating some secret code that's stored somewhere else than PCM, so yea... I don't know where that is. I can't imagine that it's there in every vehicle make model though..
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Old 06-24-2014, 03:23 AM   #18
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Mark from a warranty standpoint I believe your point of view is correct and by putting it out there you have shown what anyone who does modify their rig what they will encounter with any warranty repairs. I had to think about where the codes were stored , LOL and it came down to two other places , one easilly replaced and the other reflashable , I am getting old and forgot about it , LOL Thank you again for enlightening us .
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Old 06-24-2014, 02:18 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by cb1000rider View Post
Apply the same thing to a K&N or set of headers. Do those void power-train warranties?
I do know of warranties that have been voided due to a K&N. It allowed dust to pass. The engine was trashed from dust and the intake had dust in it. The filter didn't stop it. Ford didn't replace the engine, the owner did.

The broken part doesn't care if the added power came from a turbo, nitrous, or a set of headers. More torque/power is more torque/power. It doesn't matter how it was generated, if it is more than the stock engine produces you should be on your own. I don't think any manufacture should be responsible to fix things that have been modified.

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Originally Posted by cb1000rider View Post
I guess you're indicating some secret code that's stored somewhere else than PCM, so yea... I don't know where that is. I can't imagine that it's there in every vehicle make model though..
Yes I am. And no, I have no way of knowing if it is in every vehicle. I do know it is in some vehicles.
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