Community Forums

EngineerMike · 11-12-2009, 10:40 AM

Checking Nplenzick's photo in post #195 against the photo in post #105 and others earlier, it looks like Nplenzick's photo is of another version of the trailing arm. The earlier photo has a square steel tube w/a seat for the airbag, in what we could politely call a minimalist configuration of steel. N's photo has a standoff under the airbag and a reinforcing wrap of steel around the long tube that extends to partly underneath the airbag seat.

cbeierl · 11-12-2009, 12:02 PM

The photo in post #195 appears to be of one of the re-engineered Source replacements, not the original faulty Roadmaster one. (In fact the photo is named that as well.)

nplenzick · 11-12-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Stewart

Just to clear up the confusion, this picture, the picture on RVnet and any other picture you might see or hear about anywhere, the trailing arms that are failing are on the bottom of the axle.

This picture shows them on the bottom, they are on the bottom, they are not on top. There are other RR4R and R4R chassis that may have had trailing arms on the top, they are few and far between, almost all of the RR4R Chassis had them below the axle and those are the ones that are failing. Over 90% of the RR4R chassis made had the ones that are failing and most if not all of the RR4R made since 2003 up and until Monaco manufactured them through their Roadmaster Division before Bankruptcy this year.

As you can tell Jim, my axle is above the trailing arms not below. You may be accuarate with your assumption that 90% have the axle below but as posted on this forum and others there was no mention of it at least I never saw any, maybe I mist it! I think people have be lead to believe that if their trailing arms are above the axle they have nothing to worry about and if that's the case I can asure you that they have as much to worry about as the people who have their axle below. Mine is an 03 Safari Sahara. I think its safe to say wethier your trailing arms are above or below the axle I would highly suspect that the will fail at one point or another.

nplenzick · 11-12-2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EngineerMike

Checking Nplenzick's photo in post #195 against the photo in post #105 and others earlier, it looks like Nplenzick's photo is of another version of the trailing arm. The earlier photo has a square steel tube w/a seat for the airbag, in what we could politely call a minimalist configuration of steel. N's photo has a standoff under the airbag and a reinforcing wrap of steel around the long tube that extends to partly underneath the airbag seat.

These are the ones from Source and they are quit different then the OE.
If I get a chance I'll try to get a photo of the front of the arms. There's a huge difference there. There's more to these arms then just welding some additional metal to them. It looks to me that a fair amount of engineering was added.

nplenzick · 11-12-2009, 01:04 PM

Here's some views of the front of the trailing arms.

cbeierl · 11-12-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nplenzick

As you can tell Jim, my axle is above the trailing arms not below. You may be accuarate with your assumption that 90% have the axle below but as posted on this forum and others there was no mention of it at least I never saw any, maybe I mist it! I think people have be lead to believe that if their trailing arms are above the axle they have nothing to worry about and if that's the case I can asure you that they have as much to worry about as the people who have their axle below. Mine is an 03 Safari Sahara. I think its safe to say wethier your trailing arms are above or below the axle I would highly suspect that the will fail at one point or another.

I think the confusion here seems to be that some folks are referring to the axle while others are referring to the trailing arms (the failing component). The faulty trailing arms as well as the re-engineered Source replacements are BELOW the axle as can be clearly seen in all of the pictures in this thread. The axle sits on TOP of the trailing arm. There are apparently a small number of chassis with the trailing arms ABOVE the axle, but those are of different manufacture and are not the ones at issue here.

Jim Stewart · 11-12-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbeierl

I think the confusion here seems to be that some folks are referring to the axle while others are referring to the trailing arms (the failing component). The faulty trailing arms as well as the re-engineered Source replacements are BELOW the axle as can be clearly seen in all of the pictures in this thread. The axle sits on TOP of the trailing arm. There are apparently a small number of chassis with the trailing arms ABOVE the axle, but those are of different manufacture and are not the ones at issue here.

Ditto, the failing trailing arms and the ones pictured in the most recent posts are below the axle.

walt2137 · 11-13-2009, 08:50 AM

[QUOTE=JManatee;564324]
I was trying to express that it is my belief that $1800 is excessive.

Jm I agree with you totally, he is gouging and I see no reason a good fab and welder could not build one. I didnt think your coach was included in the coaches with the bad trailing arm?

soberjoe · 11-13-2009, 09:41 AM

I did learn something today that maybe others knew but I was a bit surprised. Everyone says the Source arms are $1800 msrp. To me msrp is the final end user. Seems in this case, Source considers anyone or any shop other then their "stocking" dealers to be the end user. A shop told me the arms were $1800 plus their mark up. I was wondering about that, they can of course mark up as much as the market will bear. But in general, most places will sell things for msrp.

I have friend who runs a shop and he called to see what his cost for arms would be. Jim told him $1800 plus shipping. I really expected a shops cost for arms to be at the very least a few hundred dollars below msrp, such is not the case.

So to me, it's just a misuse of the term msrp. But it wouldn't be the first time I misunderstood and got something wrong. Just another two cents worth from me.

Jim Stewart · 11-13-2009, 11:30 AM

My guess that those that think they could have someone make them for a lower price has not seen them, like many of us have.

To make one, someone would have to have engineering drawings and several jigs. The placement of the bolt holes for the frame, air bag, alignment pin and shocks would have to be very precise. Then, you would have to make all dimensions measurements precise for size and spacing. The U-Bolts are bigger around than your thumb, are not available off the shelf from anywhere and would not be cheap. Then, you would have to have the finished arms powder coated. Once your guy got finished, he would want to charge you a whole lot more than $900.00 each.

If Joe Smoe the Wannabe Installer calls and asks the price, he is going to get the $1,800.00 price, to get one pair, he has to agree to stock a unit, not just install one to get the Dealer price. The stocking arrangement also means that you ship yours if someone else needs one and you order another.

I guess I get sensitive when people use derogatory terms toward Source Engineering. I doubt anyone who has dealt with them would have a single bad word to say about them. I think it is fair to have an opinion, but those based on alack of knowledge are unfair.

Anyone who has dealt with Source on the Trailing Arms that thinks they overpaid or were ripped off, please raise your hand!

soberjoe · 11-13-2009, 11:56 AM

I for one have not said anything bad about Source. I think they are great guys for even making a product for us to buy. There is nothing wrong with them charging whatever they like for it. Nothing wrong with profit and the free market in my book. Every question I or anyone I know of that have asked Jim or Scott for help and or input have received nothing but wisdom and kindness from them.

If anyone wants the arms Source is selling go for it. They look strong as hell to me. I on the other hand am only trying to explore every idea there might be to solve my arm problem with the lowest cost I can. So far I have not done anything yet, heck I might end up with Source arms in the long run. I've ruled nothing out yet.

If I have offend anyone that was not my intent. I am only looking for and expressing ideas for our trailing arm problem.

Redlands Truck and RV · 11-13-2009, 05:18 PM

I wanted to give a Heads Up to those owners that have a crack or defective arm and are attempting to gain coverage from an extended service contract provider.

Make sure you have the detailed copy of your policy and review it with your service center prior to any phone calls being placed for coverage. Look at the section listing rear suspension and make sure what the provider is calling it. We ran into an issue of coverage when we submitted a claim calling it a "trailing arm" the provider said they covered "control arms" and not a trailing arm. We are still in the battle with them.

I sincerely hope this assists.

Regards,

Keith Shomaker
Redlands Truck and RV

Nonno · 11-13-2009, 06:15 PM

soberjoe,

I'm in the process of having my trailing arms replaced by a "non stocking" dealer and fortunately my extended warranty is paying for the part and labor. My out of pocket is only the deductible and freight.

However, in researching pricing and a source of experienced dealers in anticipation of the repair I spoke with Scott Zimmer. He said there was a "stocking" dealer cost, a "non-stocking" dealer cost and the MSRP of $1800. Freight varies by mileage and labor by service center.

I also asked about dealer's charging more than the $1800 MSRP. His response was that he couldn't control what they would charge but would encourage they not exceed $1800 since that is the figure used by Extended Warranty insurance companies for reimbursement.

A side note - I saw the replacement TA's yesterday. Park a VW Bug beside a Hummer and you'll have a good idea how they differ from the OEM TA's.

Flagelpater · 11-13-2009, 07:08 PM

Just thinking out loud: For those that choose to not replace the failing arms before they break, Is there a dimensional check that could also be made. Some say that the ride quality is improved after the arms are replaced. This to me means that something is moving. Does the arm yield before it breaks, or does it just break?