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Old 01-14-2014, 10:16 PM   #1
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Chasing air leak ...

For the past couple of years I have been chasing a suspension air leak. The front suspension has been dropping in apx 12 hours. Two service shops have not been able to find a leak. Fast forward to the first week of January and a two day drive in very cold temps. Temps were in the teens overnight for several days, then we drove apx 300 miles with daytime temps not getting much over freezing. First I found the air horn would not work. Then when we stopped for lunch the front suspension completely dropped in less than 30 minutes. It came back up after engine start, but did the same when we later stopped for fuel. Then we spent another night in the bitter cold. The next day the same thing happened each time I stopped and killed the engine. A couple of days after reaching home base it got into the high 40's with sunshine so I started it up, got it aired up, and rolled underneath with a spray bottle of soapy water. After spraying everything in sight I found a very bubbling leak on the picture valve. It is located center front between the wheels. By using my cell phone camera I figured out the screws on the case are torx, and I managed to get to three of the four and tightened them up a bit. The suspension held 2-3 hours after I shut the engine down. Now to get the valve replaced. I don't think I could get under the coach with the air down, so figure I will have it done when I have the annual service done sometime this next month. Can anyone name the leaky valve? ...oh, and the air horn did start working again after the weather warmed up ...

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Old 01-15-2014, 04:02 AM   #2
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Here is some reading on the valves:
Service brake relay valve

With a service brake relay valve installed, the hose that connects to the primary delivery-port output of the foot-valve becomes a control-line (i.e., The air from the foot-valve “dead ends” at the relay valve's control-port.). Only low-volume air-signals are required to travel back and forth between the foot-valve's delivery port and the relay valve's control port; therefore, the air-volume supplied by the delivery port is now only a tiny-fraction of what otherwise would have been required had the relay valve not been installed. This reduces the delay between the application of the front and rear brakes to only a fraction of a second. When the driver depresses the brake pedal, a small amount of air momentarily opens the relay valve's supply port, which then directs air from the remote air-supply directly to the rear service brake chambers, and quickly applies the rear service brakes. The pressure delivered to the service brake chambers in this manner will equal the control-pressure delivered by the foot-valve to the relay valve. When the driver partially or fully releases the brake pedal, the control-pressure delivered by the foot-valve decreases; this causes the relay valve's supply port to close, and its exhaust port to momentarily open, thus preventing a pneumatic short-circuit from occurring while the air exhausts from all rear service brake chambers. The air exhausts until the pressure within the service brake chambers once again equals the control-port pressure, which partially or fully releases the rear service brakes.
In order to control the trailer service brakes, the merged outputs (i.e., merged via 2 two-way check valves connected in-series to give three inputs) of the foot-valve and trailer-hand-valve (if applicable) are directed through the tractor-protection valve, and onward towards the trailer relay valve via the blue service line. In tractors that are not equipped with a trailer hand valve, only the merged outputs of the foot-valve (i.e., via a single two-way check valve) are directed towards the trailer relay valve; however, the fact that the foot-valve's delivery-port outputs are still merged enables the trailer's service brakes to still be controlled even if there is failure within one braking circuit of the tractor.
Spring brake relay valve

A spring brake relay valve works on the same principle as the service brake relay valve, although it has the opposite effect. This type of relay valve responds to a major drop in pressure at its control-port by opening its exhaust port, which causes the air from each spring brake chamber under its control to remotely exhaust, thus applying the spring brakes much-more-quickly than would otherwise be possible if the air were required to discharge via the yellow parking-control valve on the dashboard. In a dual-circuit air brake system, air from both the primary and secondary reservoirs is fed into the supply-port of the parking-control valve, as well as the supply-port of this relay valve; it is merged via yet another two-way check valve. The delivery-port output of the parking-control valve connects to the control-port of this relay valve; this enables the spring brakes to be controlled via this valve. The merged air from the parking-control valve prevents air-loss from only one braking circuit from causing the spring brakes to automatically apply. This gives the driver more control, and prevents the vehicle from grinding to a halt in an unsafe location. However, with this increased control, comes increased responsibility on the part of the driver: If air is lost from the primary circuit alone, the spring brakes must be manually applied by the driver via the parking-control valve; otherwise, the front service brakes may not be enough to stop the vehicle safely in an emergency—especially if the vehicle is heavily loaded, and/or traveling at a high-speed. In fact, the driver's failure to manually apply the spring brakes in this situation could lead to catastrophic failure of the front brakes due to overheating, since it could cause the front service brakes to exceed their design-limit for energy absorption. QR1C air valve speeds up the process, with anti compounding, meaning trailer and service brakes will function 1 second between each other. The relay valve's function is analogous to the transistor used in electronic circuits.

http://www.anythingtruck.com/categor...ves-relay.html
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Old 01-16-2014, 11:50 AM   #3
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AFChap,

The valve in the picture is the "Pressure Protection Valve".
It is a Haldex part # 90554107 and sells for approx $50.00.
The Specs are that it Opens at 75 psi and closes at 70 psi.
I picked up a replacement at NAPA.
This valve does have a "cleanable" filter.
This valve insures that your air pressure does not drop below the minimum required for the brakes to operate. If you notice, all the lines coming from the brass blocks are all Blue. Spartan chassis all use Blue lines for the Air Suspension system.
Don't ask how I know all this. LOL

If you are interested, I have an air system diagram that I created for my coach that might be of some value to you.

Last, if I were you, when you take the coach in for service to get this valve replaced, I would also have them Replace the Compressor to Air Dryer Stainless Steel Braided Line. Don't ask how I know that either. Hahahaha The stainless steel braided line is Spartan Part #0639-MM5-004 for my coach. It is 8 ft long and sells for $51.00 from Spartan.

If you have any other questions, feel free.

Drew
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:12 PM   #4
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Hello Mr. Drew would you mind sending me the air system diagram you have. Thank You Very Much
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:28 PM   #5
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Finally got the rig to a qualified shop ... a Rush Truck Center. In spite of my providing a picture of the leaking valve, the tech could find no leaking valve. He said he did find a leaking hose fitting. I tightened the diaphragm screws a bit more and it is holding pretty good now. Haven't tested it longer than 6 hr or so. The chassis SVC Rush did was very reasonably priced, but they also could not find another leak ...fuel or hydraulic fluid ...in spite of leaving it idling all day according to the service ticket. In the process they depleted the batteries ...did they leave it idling at low idle rather than high? ...and then they charged the batteries but did not reconnect everything AND left most of the terminal connections finger tight or less. Service guy couldn't answer some of my questions, and service tech was not available. Don't think I'all return there soon ...
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:53 AM   #6
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I would call the BBB and file a complaint on that place. Those people don't understand that people are putting their lives in their hands when they work on large over the road vehicles. They are a danger.
Happy Motorhoming guys.
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:12 PM   #7
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Hi there OldHatt45. Would you mind sending me that info as well? I have a 96 Eagle that has similar problems. It's like chasing the wind! My email is shipicker@hotmail.com
Thanks in advance Drew,
Pat
BTW, do you have any info or ideas on air dump for the jacks only working every now and then? Just thought I'd ask while I was a askin'!
Thx
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Old 04-05-2014, 06:52 AM   #8
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Air System Diagram - Mountain Master Chassis

Sorry for the delay in posting. I figured out how to attach the diagram to this post. It is a 2 page "pdf".

Here is the Air System Diagram that I made for my Spartan Chassis (Mountain Master). It has some Components that Travel Supreme put in the spec for the chassis. Page 1 is the Diagram. Page 2 is the Notes and Parts List.

Hope this helps

Drew
Attached Files
File Type: pdf TS40DS02-2003AirSystem.pdf (307.2 KB, 1864 views)
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Old 04-05-2014, 06:58 AM   #9
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Air Dump - Intermitent

Shipicker,

The air dump working intermittently could be caused by the Master Dump Valve not getting the electric dump signal from the controller on the dashboard. Or it could be a problem with the master dump valve on the firewall (mine is in the generator compartment, up high on the drivers side). If you have an "Equalizer" system, they have a pretty good troubleshooting section in their manual.

You didn't say what type leveling system you have, so I'm kind of guessing here. If you can provide a bit more information, maybe me or someone else can help further.

Drew
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Old 04-07-2014, 06:29 PM   #10
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air system

Thank you Drew!
My coach is a 1996 Fleetwood American Eagle, on a Spartan chassis, with a Powergear jack system.
Any info would be greatly appreciated! I've been dealing with this for a while, and have narrowed the jack problem down to wiring, as it is sporadic.
The air leak I don't know about yet. I've an appt. next Monday at a diesel truck repair garage, and any info I can pass to them for both problems is greatly appreciated. I wanna sit under the awning, not lay under the bus!
Thx, Pat
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:07 PM   #11
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Pat

What did your appointment at the Truck Repair Center identify was the problem with your AIR LEAK???

Thanks John H
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Old 04-16-2014, 07:52 AM   #12
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Red face Truck repair visit

Hi John and all,
Well, I went to the truck place Monday. They found that both front leveler valve fittings were leaking as well as another valve up above the generator radiator, which is going to be difficult to get to. They couldn't find the original replacement parts, but they do have universal ones which they think will fit.
As far as the jacks there is a wire that goes onto the master dump valve which is disconnected, because the connector end on the master dump valve is corroded off. Nothing to hook it to. A new master dump valve is $615 plus shipping! Quite a bit for a disconnected wire! I find it difficult to believe that a coach that had a list price of $250,000 new, would have wiring like an old erector set motor!
I have an appt next week for the leaking valves to be replaced, and I'm gonna take my electric solder gun and try to solder the wire to the master dump valve where the post WAS, and cover it with blue glue, or silicone, before I shell out the bucks for a new valve, since the old valve itself works just fine. Any ideas on this part of my homemade repair would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks for your question! Happy RVing!
Pat
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:18 AM   #13
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Pat,
Call Spartan before you spend $615.00 on that valve. Give Spartan your VIN number and they can give you part numbers and prices.
Drew
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:06 AM   #14
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Thanks Drew,
Yeah, I contacted Spartan and they looked it up and directed me to their website where they said it would be less expensive. That's where the $615 price was.
I have found a used one just today, which has been tested and checked. It cost me $250 plus shipping. I don't like used parts, but in this case, I really have no choice. Still a lot of money for a corroded post!
I appreciate your input!
Pat
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