How much to budget for engine maintenance when buying used DP?

[TwelveVolt]

We are looking for our first DP, probably an older Spartan chassis on something like an American Coach. I am trying to come up with a number for the spreadsheet for how much we should budget for planned and unplanned ENGINE maintenance in the first two years.

As an example, lets assume a 2000 with 80,000 miles, and no indication in the service logs of any major component replacements or rebuilds. What should we reasonably expect to be faced with in the next 20,000 miles? Additionally, what big ticket items are somewhat likely?

I am deliberately making this a general question without model specifics. Again, this is a question about the engine and drive train only. We want to budget an amount, factor that amount into our buying decision, and draw from that budget as an expected cost of ownership. And yes, we all have to accept the fact that STUFF happens.

Your suggestions will be appreciated (I say optimistically :-)).

[BobGed]

Will you be doing the majority, some or none of the manufacturer's recommend maintenance?

[dennis45]

Originally Posted by TwelveVolt

We are looking for our first DP, probably an older Spartan chassis on something like an American Coach. I am trying to come up with a number for the spreadsheet for how much we should budget for planned and unplanned ENGINE maintenance in the first two years.

As an example, lets assume a 2000 with 80,000 miles, and no indication in the service logs of any major component replacements or rebuilds. What should we reasonably expect to be faced with in the next 20,000 miles? Additionally, what big ticket items are somewhat likely?

I am deliberately making this a general question without model specifics. Again, this is a question about the engine and drive train only. We want to budget an amount, factor that amount into our buying decision, and draw from that budget as an expected cost of ownership. And yes, we all have to accept the fact that STUFF happens.

Your suggestions will be appreciated (I hope).

In my limited experience, you will spend about $1200-1500 a year on routine maintenance like oil, filters, belts etc. less if you do your own work.
However, I would set aside at least an extra 3-4K per year to cover the unplanned things. Repairs on these things can add up in a hurry.

For example, my dash AC quit. The Compressor had seized because the Drier had failed sending desiccant beads through the system. So, removal and cleaning, new parts, labor etc. came to around $2700 bucks.
Then, replaced a cracked Exhaust Manifold and changed oil/filters in the Allison. Did the work myself and the parts came to about $2000 when all the smoke cleared. This year, I plan to have shocks replaced and R&R the wheels to check the brakes and specially the brake cams. This little job will likely run into the $2500 - 3000 range or more depending what is found when the wheels come off. This is not a job I would do on my own so at $100/Hr it don't take long to use up 1500 in labor.
These are not what I would consider Major but when a coach reaches the ten year mark, anything can appear.

[Skip426]

When I bought, my DP, 52,000 miles on it, the dealer wanted to sell me a 5 year warranty , complete coach $13,500, 20% of the purchase price; or $5,800, engine, trans only.
I passed, in 3 years since I've had a water pump installed , $1,100 with labor, hoses and t'stats. and replaced the rad fan control module $220.
If I was having to pay shop rates to deal with a rather persistent oil leak I would have spent more, but at this point in time; drive line repairs ( non maintenance ) running under a grand a year. Would the 5 year drive train warranty been worth it ? Still got 2 years left to figure that out.

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by Skip426

When I bought, my DP, 52,000 miles on it, the dealer wanted to sell me a 5 year warranty , complete coach $13,500, 20% of the purchase price; or $5,800, engine, trans only.
I passed, in 3 years since I've had a water pump installed , $1,100 with labor, hoses and t'stats. and replaced the rad fan control module $220.
If I was having to pay shop rates to deal with a rather persistent oil leak I would have spent more, but at this point in time; drive line repairs ( non maintenance ) running under a grand a year. Would the 5 year drive train warranty been worth it ? Still got 2 years left to figure that out.

That is way too much money for a 5yr extended service contract. We bought one with our 2000 DP. It cost $4,800 for 3 yr contract that covers practically everything- from Good Sam. I had told the salesman up-front whichever MH we bought must be eligible for an extended service contract or no deal. This contract has a no-deductible clause if the work is performed by any Camping World shop, otherwise it is $50 deductible. It's in the shop now for repair of a list of problems that will add up to about $4,000 including labor.(the downside of buying a long-term stored MH)
I would not have bought an older MH without also buying an extended service contract.
P.S. If you buy one be sure to add-on the gaskets and seals rider; which applies to the drivetrain mainly.

[TwelveVolt]

Thanks to all for the very useful information and experiences.

Bob, if it involves safety, then it will get done. I am assuming the effective life of the coach to be 150k miles or 22 years. Yes, I know it can be pushed beyond that point, but my belief with all motor vehicles is that the factory built in a fixed number of miles (some better than others). Once they are used up, I feel that any further effort to resuscitate is a sentimental journey rather than a sound business decision. RV and 'sound business decision'. Sometimes I crack myself up. That's almost as good as the gem I got this month from the dealer who assured me that the price he was offering was so low that I would easily be able to get all my money back if I resold the coach on CraigsList in three years.

Anyway, any further maintenance would be done with consideration for the remaining life of the coach. There is little point in installing a 20 year component in a coach with a five year remaining life if a used or rebuilt component is available. Similar thinking would have to apply to manufacturer's' maintenance schedules.

Ray, good information. I am sure we would all like to read an update on your service shop and extended warranty experience.

[HicksRA]

It's always a crapshoot. If nothing goes wrong, and just normal maintenance is all that's necessary, you can probably get by for around $500 a year.
But the sky's the limit when stuff starts breaking on these things.
So far, the only "surprise" I've had is the hydraulic cooling fan on my side radiator. Just that little issue was around $1k to fix doing it myself.

[Steve Ownby]

Originally Posted by TwelveVolt

We are looking for our first DP, probably an older Spartan chassis on something like an American Coach. I am trying to come up with a number for the spreadsheet for how much we should budget for planned and unplanned ENGINE maintenance in the first two years.

As an example, lets assume a 2000 with 80,000 miles, and no indication in the service logs of any major component replacements or rebuilds. What should we reasonably expect to be faced with in the next 20,000 miles? Additionally, what big ticket items are somewhat likely?

I am deliberately making this a general question without model specifics. Again, this is a question about the engine and drive train only. We want to budget an amount, factor that amount into our buying decision, and draw from that budget as an expected cost of ownership. And yes, we all have to accept the fact that STUFF happens.

Your suggestions will be appreciated (I say optimistically :-)).

You are asking for a truly "unknowable".

In 2006 we purchased a 2003 coach with the goal of full timing at retirements in just under one year. Here we are in 2013 about 60,000 miles later with the same coach. We have not spent one red cent on repairs on the coach. We have done all the regular maintenance and we have done a big remodel job, but all was planned and not required. The TVs have been replaced due to tech advances and we now have a residential frig but not of necessity. I'm actively knocking wood as I write this.

[Jimooo]

Good for you Steve, that's great.


Good luck,

James

[akeyzoo]

Bought an American revolution used recently. Spent about $1K to purchase the parts necessary to do a complete service myself. Oil/Coolant/Hydraulic/Genset svc and complete tranny (filters and transynd).

Next year, much less will be needed. I am a HUGE proponent of doing this stuff yourself. Cheaper and you know how to diagnose issues in the future.

You state you expect ~150K miles of service. I disagree. Unlike a gas rig, your DP is engineered to provide many more miles then that of trouble "less" miles given everything is properly serviced. I wont ever get there, but properly serviced I would EXPECT half a million from my engine and tranny.

My dad's bigger cat (3406, mine is a C9) did well over a million...

My 05 only has 35K miles. That is literally just broken in. If you were talking about a Gas powered rig, I would say PLAN on a new engine and tranny at 150K if not sooner.

Chris

[smlranger]

As noted, the annual costs will depend largely on what you can do or are willing to do yourself....and luck .

For example, we recently got our current rig and I decided to have my local Cummins Coach Care shop give the chassis a thorough check and do service items that had not been done by the dealer (dealer did engine oil/filter change, fuel filters and oil and all filters on genset). Coach Care did the following:

Tranny fluid/filters (Transynd)
Replace air dryer dessicant cartridge
Drain/refill rear diff, full synthetic lube
Lube chassis
Replace serpentine belt
Replace both chassis batteries

Cost was right at $1,500. I used to do all this stuff myself but getting older and just don't want to lay under the greasy beast and have oil in my armpits any more .

So, it really will depend on what is done and who does it. From my experience with my previous DP which was 11 years old when I traded it, the annual chassis maintenance is not too bad. It is the stuff that breaks or starts to need replacing due to age that runs up the cost. I tend to over maintain to avoid unexpected issues since I am still working and don't want to burn vacation time sitting in a shop somewhere.

I've always maintained that it takes a special kind of insanity to own a motorhome. Love them but they are money pits, for sure.

[docj]

Our MH was owned by a CAT service engineer and even with that there were some maintenance items that had been overlooked. This year was more typical of what I expect to see from here going forward.

I do none of the work myself and like to have it serviced at a CAT facility even though I know it is more expensive. My nominal budget is ~$600 for oil, fuel filters, and generator service plus another $500-$750 for service items that are on a 3-5 yr schedule. This year there was a new thermostat and serpentine belt. Next year will probably be new transmission filters, etc. I try to adhere to the recommended PM1 service schedule as closely as possible. IMHO quite a few DP owners have gotten themselves into trouble by assuming their MH's don't need service because they aren't driven all that much.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by docj

IMHO quite a few DP owners have gotten themselves into trouble by assuming their MH's don't need service because they aren't driven all that much.

That's why most maintenance items have a time factor too. The owner is supposed to go by whichever COMES FIRST. But some people just don't see it that way!

[Clayobx]

You certainly will get many more miles than 150k from a DP. If a cummins is. Your purchase please refer to the "sticky" on the Cummins owners forum; the spread sheet will give you all needed details as to milage and yearly maintenance. As mentioned, a reasonable estimate is $1000.00 to $1700.00 every 15 to 24 thousand miles. Varies on older DP. Oil, filters, tranny filters, air filters, dryer filters are generally yearly but not a price killer. You can do most preventative maintenance yourself. At 66 years of age I am quite selective! All extended warranty companies will require published documentation regarding general yearly maintenance or they will not pay!