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Old 04-23-2013, 05:46 PM   #1
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Why does my V10 shift horribly?

If you ever wanted to see how a factory shift pattern looks now you see.
You can also see how a remap would change pattern. Real World Stuff!
*3v V10 up shift patterns shown





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Old 04-23-2013, 06:05 PM   #2
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is there a legend to indicate what each color and point indicates?
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:40 PM   #3
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red 1st
blue 2nd
ect..
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:31 PM   #4
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I guess im to use to looking at it by ratios. I assume each new line is a shift point based on MPH and the variation is VSS surge? Still not sure what each dot is in each line.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:42 PM   #5
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I'm a GM guy, so my answer might be a little tainted; because its a Ford.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:36 PM   #6
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Not quite following. There's 4 shifts in a 5 speed, 1/2, 2/3, 3/4, 4/5. I need to open up my 4R100 tables and see how they compare, had them in Excel somewhere....
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:41 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by 5star View Post
red 1st
blue 2nd
ect..
And your "ect", assuming you mean etcetera and not engine coolant temperature, covers lots of omissions. How about a little more detail for those of us who understand a little more.

You don't actually say that the graphs on the left are what you put in there, you just say that's what could go in there. Is that what you put in there?

While it looks reasonable, I'm not so sure it is. This is the 3V V10, so it has the 5R110W transmission, intended to be used as a 5 speed transmission. However, it is actually a 6 speed transmission, with the arrangement of the planetary clusters giving a total of six ratios. That extra gear isn't often used, as I believe 4th gear is a 1:1 direct drive ratio and 3rd gear is 1.06:1. That would explain why an upshift table would have 5 curves on a transmission labelled as a 5 speed. It's a little disappointing that you'd cover that with just "ect"!

Since 3rd and 4th gears are so close, there is little value in using all 6 of them in an upshift sequence. However the tables you show on the left hand side might well be appropriate for a 6 ratio transmission with equally spaced ratios, but it seems quite inappropriate for one with the ratios of the 5R110W.

Of course there are more ways in a tune than just this table to skip gears, provided you understand how they work, and provided SCT or whomever actually breaks them out for you.

So what shifting table DO you put in your tunes?
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:47 PM   #8
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And your "ect", assuming you mean etcetera and not engine coolant temperature, covers lots of omissions. How about a little more detail for those of us who understand a little more.

You don't actually say that the graphs on the left are what you put in there, you just say that's what could go in there. Is that what you put in there?

While it looks reasonable, I'm not so sure it is. This is the 3V V10, so it has the 5R110W transmission, intended to be used as a 5 speed transmission. However, it is actually a 6 speed transmission, with the arrangement of the planetary clusters giving a total of six ratios. That extra gear isn't often used, as I believe 4th gear is a 1:1 direct drive ratio and 3rd gear is 1.06:1. That would explain why an upshift table would have 5 curves on a transmission labelled as a 5 speed. It's a little disappointing that you'd cover that with just "ect"!

Since 3rd and 4th gears are so close, there is little value in using all 6 of them in an upshift sequence. However the tables you show on the left hand side might well be appropriate for a 6 ratio transmission with equally spaced ratios, but it seems quite inappropriate for one with the ratios of the 5R110W.

Of course there are more ways in a tune than just this table to skip gears, provided you understand how they work, and provided SCT or whomever actually breaks them out for you.

So what shifting table DO you put in your tunes?
5th gear is 1:1, 4th gear is 1.096:1 but is only used when TFT is below 5*F.

Here are all the ratios:
1st- 3:114:1
2nd- 2,202:1
3rd- 1.545:1
4th- 1.096:1
5th- 1:1
6th- 707:1
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:50 PM   #9
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5th gear is 1:1, 4th gear is 1.096:1 but is only used when TFT is below 5*F.

Here are all the ratios:
1st- 3:114:1
2nd- 2,202:1
3rd- 1.545:1
4th- 1.096:1
5th- 1:1
6th- 707:1
Thanks for the corrections. i tried to edit my post(with attribution), but evidently there's a 1 hour window in which that can be done.

Principle remains the same; it's entirely possible that the odd looking Ford table is how they skip the 1:1.096 4th gear, or it's also possible that there's another code algorithm in there that isn't exposed here. However, tuners making changes need to know how the algorithms work.

Is your 951 a 944 Turbo?
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:23 PM   #10
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Thanks for the corrections. i tried to edit my post(with attribution), but evidently there's a 1 hour window in which that can be done.

Principle remains the same; it's entirely possible that the odd looking Ford table is how they skip the 1:1.096 4th gear, or it's also possible that there's another code algorithm in there that isn't exposed here. However, tuners making changes need to know how the algorithms work.

Is your 951 a 944 Turbo?

no more like a jet ski SEA-DOO.net 2001 - RXX - Technical Specifications

Still one of my favorite past times. Have owned these since 1997 and a 2002 is likely what I will stick with for a while. The newer machines do have more HP which gives it a slightly higher top end but they are still all to heavy for the wave jumping I prefer. The best jumping waves I have jumped so far were from the day after a hurricane in the outer banks a few years back.
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:38 PM   #11
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Thanks for the corrections. i tried to edit my post(with attribution), but evidently there's a 1 hour window in which that can be done.

Principle remains the same; it's entirely possible that the odd looking Ford table is how they skip the 1:1.096 4th gear, or it's also possible that there's another code algorithm in there that isn't exposed here. However, tuners making changes need to know how the algorithms work.

Is your 951 a 944 Turbo?
The calibration will determine engine load and vehicle speed, this is used for shift scheduling. The PCM or TCM (depending on model) simply commands each appropriate clutch to use the necessary planetary ratio. Im not sure why the need for 4th gear only when TFT is under 5F other than possible vibration control from direct when the system is very cold. The newer 6 speed transmissions do not have any 1:1 ratio. All power flow is through planetaries. My understanding is this is done partially for vibration reduction.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:55 PM   #12
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The calibration will determine engine load and vehicle speed, this is used for shift scheduling. The PCM or TCM (depending on model) simply commands each appropriate clutch to use the necessary planetary ratio. Im not sure why the need for 4th gear only when TFT is under 5F other than possible vibration control from direct when the system is very cold. The newer 6 speed transmissions do not have any 1:1 ratio. All power flow is through planetaries. My understanding is this is done partially for vibration reduction.
I would think that using 4th instead of 5th when TFT is under 5F is to help the transmission heat up the fluid. Although I know my way around the E4OD control algorithms, I'm still slightly surprised that the upshhift Speed/TP tables have 5 entries. Of course there are many more tables than this one, and many ways of scheduling upshifts through different sequences. It may well be that the right side tables make a lot of sense, especially considering that solenoid combinations. and time to operate different solenoids are factored in.
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