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Old 10-24-2010, 05:50 PM   #1
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2000 V10 6.8L misfire problems

My 2000 Bounder started misfiring randomly about two weeks ago. I replaced the chassis mounted fuel filter and it improved somewhat. I have put lucas injector cleaner in the tank and checked the fuel pressure with an ACP 7818 fuel pressure gauge. The pressure goes to 40 psi and immediately drops to about 31psi, key on engine not running.
Running the engine, the fuel pressure rides at about 30 psi, climbing momentarily to about 40 when rapidly advancing the throttle.

At certain throttle settings it runs ok.

Any ideas. I've checked for vacuum leaks and the EGR valve all seem ok.

is the fuel pressure ok? any good mechs out there?

What's the next step? dropping the fuel tank or changing some sensors?

By the way, there is no "service engine soon" light illuminated.
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:20 PM   #2
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How many miles are on it? Does it have coil-over plugs, or two coils and wires running to the plugs?
One came in with a random misfire, and it turned out mice had chewed the wires to the computer and crank sensor.
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Old 10-24-2010, 11:38 PM   #3
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If you start replacing parts to try to fix the problem the $$$ will add up fast. The fuel pressure sounds good, anything above 30 psi is ok. If you suspect the fuel pump, drive with tester hooked up and duplicate concern on road test. If it stays above 30 psi, FP should be ok. Your Ford MH has OBDII so most engine functions are monitored by the PCM. If there is no check engine light on, that makes it a little harder to diagnose. You did not mention your odometer reading, but if you are close to 90,000 miles I would replace the spark plugs first (carefully see SP posts) If SP's are new check for any that may have been damaged/cracked during install.
You mentioned you already checked for vacuum leaks, check also for vacuum leaks away from the engine. I found one last week that was on a vacuum line that fell off the firewall area.
If that doesn't fix it then I would say 2 options.

1.) Purchase a hand held OBDII scan tool and see if it has any temporary fault codes stored in memory. (a hard code will cause the CE light to come on, a temporary code will not.)

2.) Wait for the intermittent problem to get worse and it will probably set a check engine light.
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Old 10-25-2010, 08:57 AM   #4
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Hi there
If you have the coil over the plug, I would be inclined to beleive that one or more coil has or may be going bad. I had a miss and bucking of my ford, twice. The first time they found #1 cylinder coil went bad and replaced the plug, boot, and coil. The second time they found another coil that went bad, this time on #7 cylinder. I later found out that the boot will go bad and arc off the spark plug tube well and take out the coil. If you replace the plugs, replace the boots as well. Just my 2 cents worth.
Stan
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:12 AM   #5
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Although it is likely a coil pack is going bad, they are expensive to replace. If there is an intermittent failure it should show up as a temporary code in the PCM that would help determine which coil pack is faulty.
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:24 AM   #6
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With a OBD-II system if you have a sensor bad then you would have a Check Eng light. If you have a bad coil over the plug you would have a Check Eng light indicating a problem via the second back O2 sensor saying you have too much unburned gas or you would have a hidden temporary code. If you don't have a Check Eng light and no hidden codes then most likely there is not a problem with the motor. It sure seems to me it would be cheaper to take it into the dealer and pay that $100 diagnostic fee or have them fix it. They work on the V-10s all the time.
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:38 AM   #7
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Mike, you are correct. A miss-fire will usually result in an overly rich condition being detected down stream and will set a CE light, but also OBDII will detect a miss-fire and tell you which bank of cylinders it's on.
An Intermittent miss-fire may or may not set a hard code.
Yes it is much easier to take it to the dealer, but if the OP is like me, we hate paying for something we can fix ourselves.
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:01 AM   #8
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By the time you pay for a OBD code reader, a fuel pressure gauge and replace a couple of wrong parts plus all the headaches it is cheaper to get a dealer to fix it. If nothing else the dealer can swap out parts until it is fixed without having to pay for the parts. If we could do that then it would be cheap to fix. I do agree if you have a CE light and read the code then most of the time you can go right to the failed part and fix it yourself at a big savings but I don't believe that is so in this case because there is nothing telling you what to fix. If you take it to a dealer and he says it is fixed and you go out on the road and it happens again then you get to take it back under the warranty.
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:31 AM   #9
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I agree Mike. There are pros and cons about going to the dealer. Yes, they see these types of problems all the time and probably know exactly where to go to find the problem.
The OP stated the miss-fire is random.
The OP stated he has already checked the fuel pressure, so he doesn't need to buy a pressure gauge.
If I owned an OBDII vehicle, I would not be caught dead without a code reader. You can get one for under $100.00, probably less then the cost of the first time you have to take it in for a diagnostic test.
As a retired service manager I can tell you the steps a technician will take to determine the source of an intermittent problem.
1.) First they will check with a scan tool
2.) If no hard or soft codes found they will perform a visual inspection
3.)If nothing found during the visual inspection, they will road test the vehicle with the scan tool connected to try and duplicate the customers concern.
4.) If the problem does not occur during the road test, they will call and tell you the concern could not be duplicated at this time.
5.) It is rare to get to this step, but is does happen. The technician may make an educated guess as to what is causing the problem and offer a solution with no guaranty to solve the intermittent concern.
6.) decide if you want to pay for repairs with no guaranty or take the vehicle home and pay the 2 hours diagnostic time. Dealer may allow you to come back and recheck at n/c when problem gets worse.
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:07 PM   #10
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it has cops and 43000 miles. I replaced the fuel filter again today and cleaned the MAF and installed water dispersent in the tank. It improved somewhat but I think I got a real bad load of fuel cause the generator is having run problems also.
Thanks for your interest.
Tony
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:17 PM   #11
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Tony, the bad fuel would be a possiblity and that will not turn on a Check Eng light unless it was super bad. Did the last fuel fill up come from a major gas station or a smaller mom & pop?
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanabee FTer View Post
I agree Mike. There are pros and cons about going to the dealer. Yes, they see these types of problems all the time and probably know exactly where to go to find the problem.
The OP stated the miss-fire is random.
The OP stated he has already checked the fuel pressure, so he doesn't need to buy a pressure gauge.
If I owned an OBDII vehicle, I would not be caught dead without a code reader. You can get one for under $100.00, probably less then the cost of the first time you have to take it in for a diagnostic test.
As a retired service manager I can tell you the steps a technician will take to determine the source of an intermittent problem.
1.) First they will check with a scan tool
2.) If no hard or soft codes found they will perform a visual inspection
3.)If nothing found during the visual inspection, they will road test the vehicle with the scan tool connected to try and duplicate the customers concern.
4.) If the problem does not occur during the road test, they will call and tell you the concern could not be duplicated at this time.
5.) It is rare to get to this step, but is does happen. The technician may make an educated guess as to what is causing the problem and offer a solution with no guaranty to solve the intermittent concern.
6.) decide if you want to pay for repairs with no guaranty or take the vehicle home and pay the 2 hours diagnostic time. Dealer may allow you to come back and recheck at n/c when problem gets worse.
It is not a case of the money, it's a case of finding competent people. I worked for fifty years as a licensed Aircraft and Engine mechanic and saw many incompetent people in my day that would make your air stand up. I fully understand the mechanics of the currently installed systems but without real diagnostic tools on computerized control systems it's purley a crap shoot. Where we live in the high desert of socal to find an honestly competent mechanic is a real challenge so I do 99 percent of my own work.

When I do bring it in for work they usually try to BS you and it just makes me all the more cautious of these so called mechs. (hope I don't insult anyone, please excuse me if I did) Just to justify my point I recently had a dc control problem on the rig and I called the local dealer down in palm springs asking if their mech could repair the problem; I explained it to them thoroughly and I was told to bring it in. When I got there they didn't know their foot from their hind end so I payed the service charge went home and fixed it my self. I was just being lazy after fifty years of working on machinery.

So gentlemen, the suggestions you all have offered shows understanding of the problem and I will persue them.

Maybe I'll give in and buy the diagnostic tools, without a good scan reader it's only guessing.
Thanks again to all
Tony
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Canter View Post
Tony, the bad fuel would be a possiblity and that will not turn on a Check Eng light unless it was super bad. Did the last fuel fill up come from a major gas station or a smaller mom & pop?
Yep, we were in Morro Bay and coming home we fueled at a local station that had some weird name . I'm suspecting more and more that it's stricktly bad fuel, but bad fuel results in causing some bad things to the injectors and the O2 sensors.

we also have bad problems with rats up here and I'm constantly spraying with pepermint oil to chase the sobs away but to no avail. So far don't see any chewed wires but plenty of poop. It's tough to see inside the engine compartment even with the cover off and a large spotlight. I'm going to remove the neoprene curtain from the front end and really scope out all of the wiring.

I am leaning toward bad fuel at this point.

Tony
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:39 PM   #14
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Tony,
Now we're getting somewhere. It is very common after a rainstorm to pick up a load of fuel from a gas station that has been contaminated with water. I would recommend to check your local auto parts store or walmart for a fuel additive that disperses water. Replacing the fuel filter will not solve this concern.
Water in the fuel is one of the few things that can not be detected by OBDII, and may not set a check engine light.
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