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Old 01-30-2011, 10:31 AM   #1
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2001 cummins starter problem

Last Week our 2001 Monaco coach "died" on roadside. Traced it to a dead starter. Replace the original starter with a Delco Remy rebuilt (from an cummins truck repair) and the coach started right up. Spent a few days at the campsite. Coach started right up and we returned about 150 miles to home. Pulled in Driveway to empty the coach. Started up again about an hour later to move to a different location 50 feet away. So the coach started with the rebuilt starter 3 times.

Spent a few days cleaning, washing. Tried to start the coach and again the starter was bad. Pulled the starter and did a bench test that indicated the starter was again dead. Got another rebuilt starter (under warranty) from a different international truck dealer. Installed the 2nd rebuilt starter and the coach started right up. ONCE. Tried it again the following day and the 2nd rebuilt starter is also dead. Will not bench test.

Any help/ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Mike
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:30 AM   #2
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When the starter works does the motor start right up? The only thing other than just bad starters would be a bad engine to battery ground that caused increased resistance and it caused the starter to overheat but you would have to crank for a while or the ground is loose and makes it seem like the starter is dead. Or a faulty ignition switch and not the starter As long as the starters are covered under the warranty just keep replacing them until you get a good one. The other option is to take the starter into a local starter generator rebuild place and have him tell you what is wrong with the starter? They can bench test it and most will do it for nothing. If it works on the bench test then you need to look for another problem.
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:42 AM   #3
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When the starter works does the motor start right up? The only thing other than just bad starters would be a bad engine to battery ground that caused increased resistance and it caused the starter to overheat but you would have to crank for a while or the ground is loose and makes it seem like the starter is dead.
Yes it starts right up with no unusual cranking.

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Or a faulty ignition switch and not the starter As long as the starters are covered under the warranty just keep replacing them until you get a good one. The other option is to take the starter into a local starter generator rebuild place and have him tell you what is wrong with the starter? They can bench test it and most will do it for nothing. If it works on the bench test then you need to look for another problem.
It does not bench test once it goes dead. When I get another tomorrow, I will bench test it a number of times before I install it.

Thanks for your response.

Mike
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:14 PM   #4
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Is the start solenoid releasing? If not the starter could be burnt.

LEN
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:39 PM   #5
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Hello I would first go to the Batteries check the voltage see if you have a bad battery then do a starter draw test which means checking the voltage as the stater is ingaged all of which well tell you if your cables ,batteries are in good working order starters just don't go bad (yes you can have a bad rebuilt) but 2 in a row i would be looking elsewhere bench testing the starter is good idea but it doesn't tell you the condition of your systerm, cables, gound,batteries, which your problem could lie there.
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:59 PM   #6
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Thanks I will check those out.
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:34 PM   #7
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In your original post, did you mean that the engine was running and stopped dead while in motion on the roadside or were you stopped and engine was not running and would not start? Who originally traced it to a bad starter and how did they trace it to the starter?
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:36 AM   #8
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Yea Mike, your info/description is not clear enough and somewhat contradictive:

A) Is it completely dead? As in no click, buzz or hum at all when engaging the key?
B) The starter being bad wouldn't make the engine quit, so I think everyone is confused over the "dead at roadside" statement. It just quit while driving down the road?
C) 3 dead starters in row? Im with Diesel Guy and Barlow46's posts above on this.

If the starter is truly spinning over, which you may or may not be able to hear from up front, perhaps the flywheel/flexplate is missing a few teeth or has worn itself down in an area causing a 'dead spot' where the bendix cannot engage properly.
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Old 01-31-2011, 09:18 AM   #9
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Yea Mike, your info/description is not clear enough and somewhat contradictive:

A) Is it completely dead? As in no click, buzz or hum at all when engaging the key?
B) The starter being bad wouldn't make the engine quit, so I think everyone is confused over the "dead at roadside" statement. It just quit while driving down the road?
C) 3 dead starters in row? Im with Diesel Guy and Barlow46's posts above on this.

If the starter is truly spinning over, which you may or may not be able to hear from up front, perhaps the flywheel/flexplate is missing a few teeth or has worn itself down in an area causing a 'dead spot' where the bendix cannot engage properly.
No the coach did not just stop. It was turned off and then would not start. We did the original trace with the MONACO techs, pulled the starter and bench tested it. I don't think it is the flywheel, as each starter has started the engines at least once, was then pulled and bench tested.


Guess I am at the point that I need to take it in to someone moe qualified than I.

Thanks for all the responses.

Mike
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Old 01-31-2011, 09:54 AM   #10
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No the coach did not just stop. It was turned off and then would not start. We did the original trace with the MONACO techs, pulled the starter and bench tested it. I don't think it is the flywheel, as each starter has started the engines at least once, was then pulled and bench tested.


Guess I am at the point that I need to take it in to someone moe qualified than I.

Thanks for all the responses.

Mike
Mike, we're really trying to help here.. but honestly, you need to be a bit more descriptive.

You say the ones that have failed won't bench. Does that mean that while out of the engine and on the test bench that the solenoid engaged and the starter spun while being tested on the bench or that either or both wouldn't activate/engage spin while on the bench?

You didn't respond to "does it click buzz hum or make any noise" while installed in the engine?

If while bench testing it is indeed engaging the solenoid/bendix and spinning the starter then by all means it must only be 1 of but a few things especially since this is your 3rd new or rebuilt unit.....

1) Extremely bad ground or 12+ positive right at the starter hookups.
1a) Have you recently replaced or changed any wiring to the chassis batteries? Maybe any chance you accidentally re-wired them in series rather than parallel? 24v would burn up windings in short order.
2) Flywheel missing teeth or rounded down to the point that there is a dead spot where the bendix cannot properly engage the teeth on the flywheel. A new bendix can get chewed up in short order and may indeed only be usable for just a couple of starts. (thus my question on whether or not it's making any noise whatsoever when installed and attempting to spin over)
3) Starter is wedged against block/trans casting in such a manner that its completely bound thus giving the impression of being bad/unable to spin. Any missing shims perhaps? Did it make any unusual grinding sounds when trying to start?
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:14 AM   #11
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Mike, I really think we are missing something that is really basic and simple so forgive me if I ask questions that seem condesending. Did you try the emergency start toggle when it would not start to engage the house batteries? If so, did anything sound different or change? Did you at any point in time just before the first shutdown, turn off the main battery switches for either the house or engine batteries? It's almost like you take out the bad starter and everything resets and then you put in a new starter and it works and then kicks off again. I strongly suspect an issue from the batteries to the starter and not the starter itself.
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