Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Class A Motorhome Discussions
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-26-2016, 10:59 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
G-JLD9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 185
2001 Dutch Star questions about pricing

We are going to go look at this Dutch Star tomorrow and was wounding about what a fair price maybe for this DP:

https://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/rvs/5454102575.html

He is asking 49,500 and I know he wants to get the most for his rig and I want to pay the least to get it. Nada says 38K-46K without adding anything. My research on PPL past sales has it averaging closer to 40K for paid price. On RVT I see 2001 Dutch Star for anywhere from 60k down to 37k. I know condition of the rig will justify a higher or lower price but my first thoughts are that it is priced high.

Will know a lot more tomorrow with how it looks and checks out, but what I know for now after talking to him and getting more pics is:
-Rear A/C heat pump does not work on cool
-washer/dryer combo does not dry
-no or very few maintenance records, but he did say he had it serviced regularly and fixed things when they needed it, just didn't keep paperwork. He is going to try and get copies of paperwork from where he had it serviced.
-He is the 3rd owner he thinks and has had it 4 years. They want to down size and get a 5th wheel.

I really wish it had maintenance records but if after checking everything and seeing what is good/bad I can decide if I still want to buy this. Gary and I know a lot about RV systems and have a list of stuff we check. I am a diesel mechanic and inspect lots of heavy equipment at work. So my list of stuff I check is long and I could see what things are going to need work. I also still might take it to a local Freightliner place to have it inspected also so they can tell me what they find.

For those of you who have bought and sold diesel pushers, what are your thoughts on this asking price?

How much less is no maintenance records worth in regards to asking price? Maintenance that is not done can cause lots of problems, I have seen some bad stuff in our shop. I know if I buy this I would replace and change all fluids and filters because that's just what I do with everything I buy, especially if there is no paperwork that it has been done. It would just cost me parts since I do it all my self but my time is worth something.

This rig does have the upgraded paint job, so it does look a lot better then most of the other Dutch Stars with the decals. I read about the "checking" problem with the paint and will be looking at that tomorrow.

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on this Dutch Star.

Thanks
Jen
__________________

__________________
2004 Mountain Aire 4018
Full time RVing planned for Summer of 2019
We want to live by the ocean and never see snow!
G-JLD9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-26-2016, 11:32 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Bigd9's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: The Bluegrass State
Posts: 3,865
I would stick to the PPL price and minus off estimated repairs to fix everything. Remember to add a fudge factor to the repair cost to take care of repairs that you will find you need that didn't come to light when you looked at it. or lower. Seat of the pants WAG for repairs would be:

Washer dryer repairs could run from $200 to $800
Roof air conditioner from $40 for a start capacitor to $1500 for a new one.
No records is a problem sort of. My coach had all of the records from a dealer the previous owner always used, however I found the dealer short changed the previous owner saying he performed airfilter change (if he did he used a old 8 year old filter!) compressed air dryer service (if he did he used a cartridge dated 6 months before the coach was made and probably 6 other things I found)

You can always come up in price if you think you need to.
__________________

__________________
Good Luck, Be Safe and Above All, Don't Forget To Have Fun
Pete
2006 Fleetwood Discovery 35H, being pushed by a 2014 Honda CRV
Bigd9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2016, 12:39 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,885
After being at PPL, many of their units of this vintage are not in good shape. They do sell though and their shape can't be determined by their description or digital photos.

Units in this vintage also seem to have issues with paint checking - in the southern states. That and clear coat cracking seem to be common and don't usually show up in digital photos - so ask about it if you care. Typically it's just cosmetic, but definitely affects value.

Other stuff:
* Where was it serviced? They should have receipts.
* Ask about the roof. Although this rig can survive 5 years without any roof work (maybe) - having done nothing is an indication of how well he's taken care of it.
* Likely if you were to actually get this thing back to "book" service intervals on the chassis, it's going to cost some money... Changing the oil every so often really isn't service in this rig, it's bare minimum.
* Kept indoor/outdoor? If outdoor in TX/OK, it's probably not going to be in the shape that you think it's in.
* I'd say that 75% of owners/dealers come up with their value based on NADA, only they go in and check a bunch of stuff as "options" even though NADA says not to do that - only select options not included with the coach.
* batteries work and hold their charge?
* tires are in "good shape" - but what are the date codes
* Paying cash? That rig will be unobtainable by most people who can't pay cash for it. Financing it with excellent credit might be possible by only a few select lenders, so his target market is going to be limited..


Those are nice rigs and I'd buy one - but expect to look through more than few to find the right one.
__________________
cb1000rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2016, 03:52 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
G-JLD9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigd9 View Post
I would stick to the PPL price and minus off estimated repairs to fix everything. Remember to add a fudge factor to the repair cost to take care of repairs that you will find you need that didn't come to light when you looked at it. or lower. Seat of the pants WAG for repairs would be:

Washer dryer repairs could run from $200 to $800
Roof air conditioner from $40 for a start capacitor to $1500 for a new one.
No records is a problem sort of. My coach had all of the records from a dealer the previous owner always used, however I found the dealer short changed the previous owner saying he performed airfilter change (if he did he used a old 8 year old filter!) compressed air dryer service (if he did he used a cartridge dated 6 months before the coach was made and probably 6 other things I found)

You can always come up in price if you think you need to.
I have seen some shady maintenance done on vehicles that people think they are paying to get done, and it is sad that there are shop out there like that. If we like what we see and there are not major problems, hopefully they are willing to deal. I don't know how they will react to offering say like 10K less then they are asking based on what other rigs in that year are getting. Some people could get upset at offering lower but if that's what we feel its worth and they say no, then I guess we just move on to the next one.
__________________
2004 Mountain Aire 4018
Full time RVing planned for Summer of 2019
We want to live by the ocean and never see snow!
G-JLD9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2016, 04:02 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Mr_D's Avatar
 
Solo Rvers Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 28,477
Last year we traded our very nice 2002 DSDP 4090 in for the Magna. Good mechanical shape and had a Banks kit. Did need one night stand rebuilt and a new top for it.
They gave us either $80,000 or $60,000 and took $20,000 off the price of the newer rig. NADA with no options was right about $65,000 at the time. Roof was in beautiful shape and the tires were 4 years old. We also had the Advantium micro/convection. Washer/dryer had never been used either. Light interior like the one the OP is looking at.
Strange that the heat pump only works on cool, sounds like the reversing valve might be bad or a circuit board is gone. If the compressor motor or capacitor was bad it wouldn't work at all.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA, SKP
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '14 CR-V
Mr_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2016, 04:07 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
G-JLD9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1000rider View Post
After being at PPL, many of their units of this vintage are not in good shape. They do sell though and their shape can't be determined by their description or digital photos.

Units in this vintage also seem to have issues with paint checking - in the southern states. That and clear coat cracking seem to be common and don't usually show up in digital photos - so ask about it if you care. Typically it's just cosmetic, but definitely affects value.

Other stuff:
* Where was it serviced? They should have receipts.
* Ask about the roof. Although this rig can survive 5 years without any roof work (maybe) - having done nothing is an indication of how well he's taken care of it.
* Likely if you were to actually get this thing back to "book" service intervals on the chassis, it's going to cost some money... Changing the oil every so often really isn't service in this rig, it's bare minimum.
* Kept indoor/outdoor? If outdoor in TX/OK, it's probably not going to be in the shape that you think it's in.
* I'd say that 75% of owners/dealers come up with their value based on NADA, only they go in and check a bunch of stuff as "options" even though NADA says not to do that - only select options not included with the coach.
* batteries work and hold their charge?
* tires are in "good shape" - but what are the date codes
* Paying cash? That rig will be unobtainable by most people who can't pay cash for it. Financing it with excellent credit might be possible by only a few select lenders, so his target market is going to be limited..


Those are nice rigs and I'd buy one - but expect to look through more than few to find the right one.
I will ask about this stuff you mentioned and we are taking all our test equipment to check stuff. I bring my multimeter, battery tester, temp gun and snap-on code reader.

Is getting a loan on older rigs hard to get, do banks not like loaning on stuff this old? We will be paying cash, so I never looked into what RV leaders will lend on. Well that makes it better for us if the potential buyer are limited to cash deals.
__________________
2004 Mountain Aire 4018
Full time RVing planned for Summer of 2019
We want to live by the ocean and never see snow!
G-JLD9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2016, 04:13 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Mr_D's Avatar
 
Solo Rvers Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 28,477
10 years old and loans are harder to get. Cash is good too.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA, SKP
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '14 CR-V
Mr_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2016, 04:22 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,885
More than 10 years and lenders even willing to make loans on these rigs is reduced down to a very few.. And of those lenders, they're going to lend "loan value" (about trade-in value), and require that the purchaser have excellent credit. It's a massively reduced market. That works in your favor as a buyer.
__________________
cb1000rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2016, 04:42 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
G-JLD9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
Last year we traded our very nice 2002 DSDP 4090 in for the Magna. Good mechanical shape and had a Banks kit. Did need one night stand rebuilt and a new top for it.
They gave us either $80,000 or they gave us $60,000 and took $20,000 off the price of the newer rig. NADA with no options was right about $65,000 at the time. Roof was in beautiful shape and the tires were 4 years old.
Strange that the heat pump only works on cool, sounds like the reversing valve might be bad or a circuit board is gone. If the compressor motor or capacitor was bad it wouldn't work at all.
Mr. D,

The heat pump does not work on cool, just on heat they said. I will check it out tomorrow and see what the deal is.

From what research I have done the prices are a wide range out there, so I guess if we love the rig then we just have to decide what we are willing to pay. We have looked at 5 different DP in the last 3-4 weeks and all of them were priced too high to me, but a Dutch Star has always been my favorite so we just might be willing to pay more for one.

When we first started looking we just wanted a for now MH in the 15K range, but after getting some great feed back from you and others about how life can change in a instant; we have decided if we find the Dutch Star we love, we are getting it now and enjoying. In the last 3 years Gary and I have lost 3 loved ones to cancer, and everyone is right about we need to do it now since we have the means to do it. All last night we talked about all the stuff we could go do and see in a Dutch Star even though we are not retired yet. And if we get this Dutch Star we could full time in it when the time comes, so other then a bit more taxes here in Kansas, this would not be a bad decision.
__________________
2004 Mountain Aire 4018
Full time RVing planned for Summer of 2019
We want to live by the ocean and never see snow!
G-JLD9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2016, 04:44 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Hit_the_Rhod's Avatar


 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Salvisa, KY
Posts: 2,436
Jen, our coach is very similar to the one you are looking at, same year, engine, just a 3891 instead of 3851. Major differences are that we have two slides instead of just one, and the kitchen is on the other side. We purchased about a year ago. 5 month old tires, 7 month old replacement Splendide washer/dryer combo, two year old new paint, 4 year old new roof by Newmar (hail damage) and in absolutely fantastic condition through out. Also came with tool box, two bar, sewage caddy and basically anything that was RV related as owners were retiring to brick and mortar house. One owner, copious maintenance records and manuals, and numerous small upgrades through out. Owners advertised for 55k, we paid 45k.

Check date codes on tires.
Assume needs new heat pump ($1,500.00)
Washer/dryer, gut feeling, PO hadn't pulled routine maintenance on washer dryer, and vent hose is clogged with lint . . . .easy fix, but doesn't bode well for maintenance on rest of rig.
Check when desiccant dryer and coalescing filter on air for air brakes was changed last. ($400 if changed by dealer, plus parts, around $110 if you do yourself, BUT it is a nasty job)
Check coolant overflow tank. If it is the yellowed plastic tank inspect REALLY closely for small cracks in the plastic right at the level the coolant is showing . . . better to replace with a metal tank from freightliner. $600 to $900 if they do it, $200 if you do it yourself.
Have a DOT inspection done after you do YOUR inspection. They know different things to look for. About $150 to $200 at Freightliner. Have them pull the codes on the engine as well. You should have the 3126b cat. The transmission codes may have to be pulled by an Allison dealership.
Run the generator for at least 30 minutes under load.
Check the operation of the floor in front of the passenger seat (where it comes up flat or goes down to exit the coach. They are problematic. Our works fine, but we don't actually ever use it!
Check the awning condition by pulling ALL THE WAY out and inspecting where it attaches to the coach.

Assuming everything checks out, and the tires are newer than about two years, I would feel comfortable in the 35 to maybe 42k range. I have absolutely no reservations about having a Newmar coach that is 15 years old.

Good luck on your inspection, and keep us updated on what happens!

Oh, forgot to add, check the operation of the HWH leveling jacks, both down, and how fast they retract!
__________________
Scot & Laura Kellersberger
Newmar 4 wheel drive Dutch Star 3891, 2005 GMC Canyon. Demco Tow Bar & Baseplate U.S.Army (ret)
1985 - 2006
Hit_the_Rhod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2016, 04:59 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
G-JLD9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit_the_Rhod View Post
Jen, our coach is very similar to the one you are looking at, same year, engine, just a 3891 instead of 3851. Major differences are that we have two slides instead of just one, and the kitchen is on the other side. We purchased about a year ago. 5 month old tires, 7 month old replacement Splendide washer/dryer combo, two year old new paint, 4 year old new roof by Newmar (hail damage) and in absolutely fantastic condition through out. Also came with tool box, two bar, sewage caddy and basically anything that was RV related as owners were retiring to brick and mortar house. One owner, copious maintenance records and manuals, and numerous small upgrades through out. Owners advertised for 55k, we paid 45k.

Check date codes on tires.
Assume needs new heat pump ($1,500.00)
Washer/dryer, gut feeling, PO hadn't pulled routine maintenance on washer dryer, and vent hose is clogged with lint . . . .easy fix, but doesn't bode well for maintenance on rest of rig.
Check when desiccant dryer and coalescing filter on air for air brakes was changed last. ($400 if changed by dealer, plus parts, around $110 if you do yourself, BUT it is a nasty job)
Check coolant overflow tank. If it is the yellowed plastic tank inspect REALLY closely for small cracks in the plastic right at the level the coolant is showing . . . better to replace with a metal tank from freightliner. $600 to $900 if they do it, $200 if you do it yourself.
Have a DOT inspection done after you do YOUR inspection. They know different things to look for. About $150 to $200 at Freightliner. Have them pull the codes on the engine as well. You should have the 3126b cat. The transmission codes may have to be pulled by an Allison dealership.
Run the generator for at least 30 minutes under load.
Check the operation of the floor in front of the passenger seat (where it comes up flat or goes down to exit the coach. They are problematic. Our works fine, but we don't actually ever use it!
Check the awning condition by pulling ALL THE WAY out and inspecting where it attaches to the coach.

Assuming everything checks out, and the tires are newer than about two years, I would feel comfortable in the 35 to maybe 42k range. I have absolutely no reservations about having a Newmar coach that is 15 years old.

Good luck on your inspection, and keep us updated on what happens!

Oh, forgot to add, check the operation of the HWH leveling jacks, both down, and how fast they retract!
Lots of good info here for us, Thank You. We will add this to the list of stuff to check. I feel the 200 or so buck for a DOT inspection from Freightliner will be worth it, even though I do inspections on heavy equipment for a living, but not on RVs, you are right that they know what they are looking for. So we will be doing that if we buy it. They said the tires were replaced recently but I will be checking the code to make sure. I like the 35-42k range also, so I will let ya know how it checks out tomorrow for sure. If they say no to a lower price at first, after a while they just might call me back if it doesn't sell. I'm in no hurry so time is on my side.
__________________
2004 Mountain Aire 4018
Full time RVing planned for Summer of 2019
We want to live by the ocean and never see snow!
G-JLD9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2016, 05:28 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Hit_the_Rhod's Avatar


 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Salvisa, KY
Posts: 2,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-JLD9 View Post
Lots of good info here for us, Thank You. We will add this to the list of stuff to check. I feel the 200 or so buck for a DOT inspection from Freightliner will be worth it, even though I do inspections on heavy equipment for a living, but not on RVs, you are right that they know what they are looking for. So we will be doing that if we buy it. They said the tires were replaced recently but I will be checking the code to make sure. I like the 35-42k range also, so I will let ya know how it checks out tomorrow for sure. If they say no to a lower price at first, after a while they just might call me back if it doesn't sell. I'm in no hurry so time is on my side.
Figure in replacements for the old CRT Televisions if it has them. Our front one was a head knocker for me. We removed it, cut down cabinet and added a front with doors for more storage. We placed a flat screen TV across from the sofa above a desk. The TV doubles as a PC monitor. Replaced the one in the bedroom with a 24" flat screen on a swivel arm. Freed up all that space in the cabinet behind for linen and such.
__________________
Scot & Laura Kellersberger
Newmar 4 wheel drive Dutch Star 3891, 2005 GMC Canyon. Demco Tow Bar & Baseplate U.S.Army (ret)
1985 - 2006
Hit_the_Rhod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2016, 06:20 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Ramets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conway, SC
Posts: 2,364
$49k is too much. Especially with all the repairs needed. I recently sold our 2000 Dutch Star for $40K with EVERYTHING working & complete maint records. Along with a new heat pump, custom full body paint job, 42" Samsung HDTV, Residential fridge, HD Sat. dish, Solar, a new Magnum 2800W PSW, AGM batteries, a year left on an extended service contract plus much, much more. My advice...keep looking! Without at least complete Maint. records I'd walk away. Too many fine coach's out there to settle for someone else's problems. Unless of course he brings that price Waaayyyy down. I'd also find out if an Extended Service Plan is available for that year coach. I think I've seen that Dutch Star for sale elsewhere. It's been on the market for quite awhile.
__________________
2000 Dutch Star Pusher
2009 Saturn Vue Towed
Full timed for 6yrs.
Ramets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2016, 09:58 AM   #14
Moderator Emeritus
 
Gary RVRoamer's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Silver Springs, FL. USA
Posts: 18,078
Yeah, $49K is top dollar and it would have to be in exceptional condition to justify that. Sounds like the condition is quite good, but not perfect.

I don't set a lot of store by the NADA value for a 15 year old coach, at least not the online (free) version NADA. By year 10 or 12, age has become largely irrelevant and condition is supreme.

If the rig is as clean as the photos suggest, make an offer you feel comfortable with and see where it goes.

Since you have diesel vehicle experience, I'm not sure what the Freightliner shop can offer that you can't do. They are truck experts moreso than motorhome experts, so many system are outside of their realm. Does your experience include air suspension & brakes? That might be the significant difference vs industrial power equipment.
__________________

__________________
Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition
Home is in the Ocala Nat'l Forest near Ocala, FL
Summers in Black Mountain, NC
Gary RVRoamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dutch star



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dutch Star pricing efstewart Newmar Owner's Forum 9 10-29-2011 08:49 PM
2008 Dutch Star or 2009 Dutch Aire Branden Newmar Owner's Forum 13 03-29-2008 12:39 PM
2001 Dutch Star Mikeeg Newmar Owner's Forum 4 10-01-2007 09:36 PM
2001 Dutch Star 3368 Gasser Mikeeg Newmar Owner's Forum 3 05-18-2007 11:39 AM
Seeking 2001 Gas Dutch Star Owners RetiredSKP Newmar Owner's Forum 6 05-11-2007 06:53 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.