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Old 04-10-2016, 02:30 AM   #1
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2002 Holiday Rambler Advice maybe overpriced?

First off let me say this has no bad reflection on the the owner and it is a 1 owner kept in a pole building. 18,000 honest miles 324 hours on the 7.5 Onan.
Pictures could not express how clean inside and out. Zero smells or odors
There is small wear here and there but its at least a 9 inside everything works. On the Fridge recall they got the ammonia coils replaced also at the same time of the repairs under warranty.
Outside the coach body is a honest 8 and paint is better than most I have looked at that are newer.
Drives like a dream steering tight and we had 15-20 winds few gusts 25 or so sway was not bad at all.
Cummings 330 Hp

Cons or issues to need service:
Transmission never been serviced, dex 2 still, the atf appears clean no odor pinkish like it should be. Transmission cooler recall done*
Dash A/C is blowing not cold but not warm, R-13 Freon system low, owner stated he noticed the a/c last fall on last trip.
Diff/hubs lubes never been changed.
The 3M Protective film is like crackle paint and needs removed.
Both headlight lenses are glazed from the inside, can you buy just the clear lenses anyone know?
One window on the coach is milky as the duel glass seal failed.
Genset has not had a major service and De-coked.
Tires are factory yes indeed no cracks, 14 years old and I will have to buy tires.

My Thoughts:
I could go on and nic/pick some things but their small and the owners were 100% upfront about everything.
It is low miles but not a barn queen as every sunday he would run it 30 minutes min, and drive it a few miles.
Nada MH book shows it at Avg. Retail at 48,450. I have looked and drove a "Bunch 5-6" of HR,and knights in the same age range varying 45-80k in miles priced 48,000 to 52,54, etc but had current tires or new tires etc and dash ac working.
There asking price is 70,000, which I can't see as it needs tires and coach ac repair.
Roof needs to be dicorded, as it hasn't been done, no leaks but time to do it.
I am willing to go some extra for the efforts they made to keep it as nice as the did as it is a real cream puff and I WANT to own this coach.

I expect 200-500 dollars IF I do the labor to repair the dash a/c and change it over to the newer Freon.
Other needed services will add up in cost also.
It is a REAL Nice coach and it will take a long time to find another this nice I am sure but the reality is No Banks will finance a 2002 There is only a few lenders that will.
I am not looking to low ball this guy but I can't see his asking price.
What would you expect to pay, I know I will take the hit in price too by keeping it 3 years or more. I will have to use it to justify the loss.

42-43,500 is all the lenders will go period.

Would 52,000-55,000 be a fair honest range to offer due to the tires and repairs and services needed? I feel any more I should keep shopping for a few years newer and expect to pay more also.
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Old 04-10-2016, 02:59 AM   #2
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your call. if it is what you want give him an offer and haggle the price.

all units are want for maintenance so cost is only what you are willing to put out .

tell him what the cost of your repairs will be and work the price to your advantage.

if the floor plan fits and it is what you want then bite the bullet and give him more toward what he wants and the extra you pay will pay you in the long run.

good luck and enjoy, if that is the way you wish to go

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Old 04-10-2016, 03:05 AM   #3
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(Nada MH book shows it at Avg. Retail at 48,450. I have looked and drove a "Bunch 5-6" of HR,and knights in the same age range varying 45-80k in miles priced 48,000 to 52,54, etc but had current tires or new tires etc and dash ac working.
There asking price is 70,000, which I can't see as it needs tires and coach ac repair.
Roof needs to be dicorded, as it hasn't been done, no leaks but time to do it.)

You answer your question right here, Avg. retail, 48,450, which this MH falls under, with needing new tires, and the other things done, you deduct from this price not add to it! Then you added this little tid bit,

(42-43,500 is all the lenders will go period.)

I would offer him 40K, and be willing to walk away! He has this priced really high, and he knows the NADA price, believe me, with all it needs done, that is a fair price! Also, he has told you everything he knows, and has been honest with you, But, there are always unforeseen things that will come up! Bottom line, if he has really been on top of the maintenance he would have replaced those tires long ago! How many other things are there like the tires, you mentioned the transmission has never been serviced? That 3M mask is a real PITA to remove! Just say'n!

You ask, sorry if it is not want you wanted to hear? JMHO! Rail!
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Old 04-10-2016, 04:03 AM   #4
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Grailrail53, Yes Sir I did ask for it and thanks for answering. I agree 100% on the service stuff and the unknowns from just age that will occur.
Yep on the 3M.
Thanks for reminding me to stick to my first pricing structure which is closer to you are posting and or walk away before I ever saw it..

I know how the guy feels he paid a boatload for it new, but he sailed that ship and its worth only so much now no matter how nice it is.
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Old 04-10-2016, 06:19 AM   #5
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personally, wouldn't go any higher than avg retail........you are gonna have to put maybe $6 to $8 grand in tires, maint, other tweaks, etc............I would concur with the $40 grand offer................and be prepared to walk away.........I know this is a very stressful time...........good luck
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Old 04-10-2016, 07:43 AM   #6
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I'm surprised to hear lenders will even talk to you about a coach this age. You can be certain they won't be talking to anyone when you go to sell it! Because of the limited number of cash buyers available, your market is diminished greatly, bringing the price down on a supply and demand basis. This is why coaches this age can be a great bargain when viewed from a bucks spent for bang received perspective - if you can come up with the cash.

I think you've found something solid to work with, but it doesn't sound like a cream puff that might pull top dollar.

There's a lot of sweat and blood required bringing the maintenance (scheduled and unscheduled) on a coach like this up to snuff. It should be priced accordingly.

Our '97 was a similar deal back when we were looking. The options were right and it appeared to be something solid I could work with. I knew it had been for sale for at least a year, and when we looked at it, the owner admitted we were one of just 2 others that seemed serious the entire time. We dickered back and forth for over a month before finally compromising on price.

Stick to your guns. You're very likely the only one looking at it. If you do happen to loose it, it may be for the best.
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:32 AM   #7
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Last year I bought my meticulously maintained Newmar that was always stored in a heated garage. It was a 2000 and I paid $40,000. Like yours, it also needed new tires and later I discovered new shocks. Then the 2-year-old fridge died on me.

Perhaps if he paid for the new tires and other repairs you could go a little higher, but otherwise don't be afraid to walk away even though I know coaches that well maintained can be hard to find in some areas.
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:17 AM   #8
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I would not buy an older coach that I could not get an extended warranty/service contract on. I bought a real nice '03 beaver and put a service contract on it. When back from our 3 month and 7000 mile trip, the service contract coughed up over $9000 in repairs. For $70,000 you can buy a nice high end coach that you can get a warranty on. SEE BELOW


http://www.rvt.com/Monaco-Safari-Che...85821-UX158341


http://www.rvt.com/New-and-Used-Clas...page=30&page=4
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Old 04-10-2016, 10:44 AM   #9
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Just sold my 02 Diplomat in great shape 2 yr old tires 1yr old awnings and slide toppers 3m removed everything worked and maintained for $41,500. Buyer with excellent credit couldn't get it financed. Had to pull money out of his house. $40,000 would be top money for the unit
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:04 AM   #10
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I agree with what GuardRail posted and his assessment.

This guy is living on another planet if he really thinks that he'll get 70K for that unit regardless of the shape.

Frankly ever $40,000 is a high price considering that YOU will have to pay the following for updating these items:

Tires = $3500 - $5000
TranSynd fluid and filter change = $500
Dash A/C = up to $800
Front Hubs = $350
Differential = $250
3M removal and new applied = $1500
New Headlights = $250
One defogged window - $350
Generator service = $500

You are looking at over $10,000 of your own money to update this rig.

That would be north of $50,000 total. I would be negotiating as low as you can go truthfully.

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Old 04-10-2016, 12:29 PM   #11
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For some reason, since the recession, some seem to think that everyone is willing to give everything away and accept ridiculously low prices. First off, most of those saying they got something for an outrageous price were full of it. Second, the motor home market is on fire right now.

You've done the research, you know what's out there. You say the coach is the cleanest one you found. You can join the group that buys on price only and then complains about quality for years, or pay a little extra for a quality coach.

It sounds like $42K is the average. That average also includes old tires, failing 3M film, not so cold A/C and other items that go bad with age. Most of those average coaches aren't going to drop the price for repairs, because they're already at the average price range, which typically needs stuff done.

No matter how you look at it, you're going to have to come up with some cash for this deal. If it's as nice as you say, I would politely discuss what needs repairing, show them the NADA value and what the banks are willing to finance. Start at a $42K offer and cap at $52K.

Some will tell you to low ball the guy and then move on....well often, those are the same guys who five years later are still looking for that cheap coach and missed five years of camping or bought such a pile of junk, it's been nothing but a money pit.

You've seen what is out there, don't kick yourself later for not grabbing the one you wanted. Remember, there will always be someone who tells you how they got a better deal, but that can never be verified and is human nature.
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Old 04-10-2016, 12:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahicks View Post
I'm surprised to hear lenders will even talk to you about a coach this age. You can be certain they won't be talking to anyone when you go to sell it! Because of the limited number of cash buyers available, your market is diminished greatly, bringing the price down on a supply and demand basis. This is why coaches this age can be a great bargain when viewed from a bucks spent for bang received perspective - if you can come up with the cash.

I think you've found something solid to work with, but it doesn't sound like a cream puff that might pull top dollar.

There's a lot of sweat and blood required bringing the maintenance (scheduled and unscheduled) on a coach like this up to snuff. It should be priced accordingly

Our '97 was a similar deal back when we were looking. The options were right and it appeared to be something solid I could work with. I knew it had been for sale for at least a year, and when we looked at it, the owner admitted we were one of just 2 others that seemed serious the entire time. We dickered back and forth for over a month before finally compromising on price.

Stick to your guns. You're very likely the only one looking at it. If you do happen to loose it, it may be for the best.
#1 you are correct I only found one lender even willing to finance and the
terms are 8 years, we have excellent credit which helps.
#2 I am a 40 year ASE Certified Master Mechanic and worked anything
including aircraft major engine overhauls and air-frame. Building Allison transmissions, or any transmission brand. Diesel pm to major maintenance. Solid electronics/ electrical background but sadly with a broken down back.
Automotive shop owner for 20+ years
#3 You are right We are the only serous bites they have had and the only ones that have test drove the MH.
You are 100% right I will be the last guy to be able to finance this unit and in 2017 the lender will not do it.
I will be the one taking the final hit for my course of resale will diminish.

Buyers remorse is much easier online than real life thanks to everyone that chimed in.
I don't dicker/haggle well, I just hate drama of any kind.
It will cost me yearly to feed and keep the coach, He is too.
I think my best option is to not call them or pursue the coach with any offer and see if they call us back in a few weeks when they land in reality.
I might pay 40 as suggested but nothing more.
If tires and all service was up to date I would expect to pay 50,tops

Thank you for the time to post. Steve
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Old 04-10-2016, 02:42 PM   #13
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You are obviously emotionally involved in this rig. Everyone has told you the same thing...way over priced!!! People often think that their rig is worth what they owe on it or more. I always tell people that 20% below NADA low retail is where I make my offer. If it is a very nice coach I might go up to low retail. My current coach NADA low retail was 129K when I bought it for 85K from a dealer. They fixed everything and tires were 4 years old. I've still put 10K into it in the last 2 years getting a baseline on all maintenance and some regular failures. If you aren't ready to walk away you are going to get screwed! Getting screwed is not always bad! If you are happy and never listen to all the nay sayers then good for you! Walk away or enjoy it!
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Old 04-10-2016, 05:20 PM   #14
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Holiday Rambler

I have a 2001 Endeavor, 330hp Cummings, 45,000 miles and in very good condition. It comes with a 2003 PT Cruiser all for $52500.00. It has most every option available, nice coach. If you are interested let me know. I will deliver the coach anywhere in USA. It is listed in the for sale area of this web site.
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