Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Class A Motorhome Discussions
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-09-2015, 02:10 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 36
2007 National Trop-I-Cal T330...Your Opinions ??

We own a 2003 Allegro 32BA Ford V-10 Gas. Had it two years. Drove to Alaska first year. Second year through western mountains.

What we don't like or, stated positively, what we would like to have are the ride and power advantages of a DP. We plan to go back to Alaska and the western US mountains more ....my V10 Ford really has to work hard going up long grades and I worry going down the other side. The noise is bothersome. The ride is "truck like", probably because it is a truck chassis. The constant up and downshifting even in moderately hilly driving drives me crazy. I have no issue with our gas mileage at a tiny bit over 8 mpg measured. We just started towing a MINI Cooper recently and even towing it looks like I am at least getting close to 7 mpg.

I have been looking for days trying to locate some DP's in the 33 to 35 foot range but there are not many...have found a few 2006 2007 Fleetwood Bounder 34H coaches in the $74 to $98 K range but none near me. Also some Winnie Journey and itasca Meridian 34 size but none near me

I found this one unit below nearby in Charleston, SC....plan to go see it next week

2007 National Tropical T330 Diesel 2 Slides Warranty, Leather 300 Diesel - Best Pre Owned RV of SC - charleston, South Carolina 29492

I see two disadvantages...the basement storage is not very generous....most compartments already used for coach stuff like in house batteries, etc.

The other and biggest concern I have is I would really like to have more hill climbing power...Cummins 5.9L 300HP/ 600 Ft. Lbs seems a little light...i want a rig that will CLIMB!

However, the refinished wood floors look great and at least in the photos we both love the floor plan....I would love some feedback...any comments welcome

Thanks, Jim
__________________

__________________
discus277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-09-2015, 06:22 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
gemert's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 847
I do not know personally but have seen many here complain of a lack of power and hill climbing of a 300HP engine diesel or not. 600 Tq not enough to make up for it. Remember my opinion is based on what I have read here and on other forums, It's worth what you paid!
__________________

__________________
Jerry, "EWC (SW)" USN Retired
2003 Beaver Patriot Thunder 505 HP C-12 1550 TQ
Allison 4000MH Ram 4X4 towed
gemert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2015, 05:46 AM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 36
Thanks Jerry. Your opinion is what I think too. 600 pounds of torque is probably OK for most eastern travel but even there marginal and in the west definitely just not enough
Jim
__________________
discus277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2015, 09:40 AM   #4
Moderator Emeritus
 
Gary RVRoamer's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Silver Springs, FL. USA
Posts: 18,060
When it comes to climbing hills, you need enough horsepower to move the weight up the grade. 300 hp on a 30k lb rig moves you about the same as 600 hp on a 60k rig. The 5.9L revs a bit higher to do the job than an 8.3L or 8.9L (with higher torque), but all produce their hp in a very useful RPM range. Unlike a gas engine, which needs ultra-high rpms to get full rated horsepower.

Motorhome builders generally figure on about 100 lbs/hp when configuring engines to their models, but that is only anemic performance on 6%+ grades. Your car, for example, probably has only about 20 lbs/hp. Obviously the coach isn't going to fly up any grades! You can get high end models with larger engines (more horsepower), but probably not many in the size range you are talking. Bounders and Winnie's are high dollar models and seldom offered bigger engines, even as an option. Not their market. Look for older upscale models, e.g. Country Coaches or American Dreams or Eagles. They usually had somewhat larger engines for their size.

Better yet, just relax and climb those grades at 40 mph or so. It makes little difference at the end of the day whether you go 40 or 50 up a hill.

By the way, 2-3 miles of 7% grade is the same climb in the East as in the West. If you don't believe it, drive through western NC and eastern TN.
__________________
Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition
Home is in the Ocala Nat'l Forest near Ocala, FL
Summers in Black Mountain, NC
Gary RVRoamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2015, 11:10 AM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 36
Thanks Gary.

I know the 5.9L will get me there eventually but another thread got me looking at higher end coaches such as the Country Coach as you mentioned.

I do see some Bounders and Journeys with more than the 5.9L Cummins however. For example this one

2009 Winnebago Journey 34Y, Class A - Diesel RV For Sale By Owner in Chesapeake, Virginia | RVT.com - 171796

The Freightliner "built on" page shows this coach with a 6.7 L Cummins 350HP/ 750 lbs torque. Also with the Allison MH3000 6 speed vs the 2500 5 speed. Some other earlier years seem to use the Cat C-7

I agree they are more money than the National....I am going to pursue some higher end like Country Coach and see where that leads me

Thanks again, Jim

.
__________________
discus277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 10:42 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Country Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redding
Posts: 3,412
My 31,000 lb Country Coach is pushed by a C8.3L Cummins, 300 HP, 860 ft lbs torque.

We tow a 5,000 lb Jeep.

Most of our 70,000 miles of travel are in the Western states. Average fuel is 7.3 mpg.

Many of the uphill grades are at 35 mph max, although we still pass many truckers.

Downhill is good with an exhaust brake and a slow start at the top.

With 96,000 miles on the rig, the front brake shoes are "like new" per the mechanic who recently greased our front hubs.

Flatland can easily cruise at 75 mph, but we do not do that anymore.

If you are in a hurry uphill and downhill, get a better ratio of torque to weight and something with an engine brake.
__________________
Dean
1995 CC Magna #5280
C8.3L 300hp Cummins, 31,000lbs
deandec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2015, 07:27 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 36
Dean thanks. ....exactly the info I am looking for.


I found a brochure on line for the 2006 Country Coach Inspire 360. The brochure says they come with CAT C9 400HP/1100 ft. lbs. torque. Found another site that states the GVW is 33,200 and GCVW 43,200. If these numbers are correct, this coach has plenty of power. I will be towing a 2015 Cooper Convertible. Edmunds says the curb weight is 2700 lbs

Your comment about getting an"engine brake"? isn't an exhaust brake the same as an engine brake? I need some education on this too.

Any further comments will be appreciated.

Thanks again, Jim
__________________
discus277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2015, 10:58 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Country Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redding
Posts: 3,412
I do not know the Cat C-9. Others will chime in.

The engine brake is a much more effective brake mechanism.

Typically, the lower torque engines are accompanied by the Exhaust brake add-on. The exhaust brake partially closes the exhaust pipe causing back pressure to slow the rig.

The engine brake is internal to the engine and generally cannot be installed after market. Verify that an engine brake is installed before buying the rig, if that is on your needs list.

Thus endeth my knowledge of ancillary braking systems.
__________________
Dean
1995 CC Magna #5280
C8.3L 300hp Cummins, 31,000lbs
deandec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2015, 12:19 PM   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
Gary RVRoamer's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Silver Springs, FL. USA
Posts: 18,060
The Cat C9 is roughly equivalent to the Cummins ISL. You can drive yourself nuts with detailed spec comparisons, but at the end of the day they both make a coach go about the same.

I don't think the C9 was available with a Jacobs engine brake, whereas it is a Cummins factory option on the ISL. Not practical as an aftermarket install - major internal engine differences. An exhaust brake performs a similar function, i.e. retarding speed by using the engine to create drag, but it works differently and generally somewhat less effective than the internal "Jake" brake. Not hard to add-on if the coach doesn't have one already. And an exhaust brake is adequate for the need.

You need not be concerned about towing the 2700 lb Mini. It won't be very noticeable on any of those coaches.
__________________
Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition
Home is in the Ocala Nat'l Forest near Ocala, FL
Summers in Black Mountain, NC
Gary RVRoamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2015, 02:09 PM   #10
"Formerly Diplomat Don"
 
Dutch Star Don's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Moorpark, Ca.
Posts: 9,278
Jim.....there is a reason why you won't find a lot of short coaches. Over time, many lengths have been tried by the manufacturers, often dictated by fuel prices. There were some short 30-32 models made, but many found them no better performing than a gas rig in that size, especially today with the modern gas coaches.

Personally, I would NEVER go shorter than 34'. Keep in mind, you have to mount the diesel engine at the very rear of the coach and push the rear axle forward to make everything fit. Then you hang a generator off the front. With a short wheelbase, they will porpoise. Many will argue that theirs ride great, but often are just defending their purchase. I bought a 36' Monaco Diplomat new in 2005. It was a GREAT coach, but had some handling issues. I spent several thousand dollars to make it handle better.

Now.....let's talk engines. The early 2000 year models started using the Cat 350 (C-7) and the Cummins 330-350 (ISC). These are two good workhorses that will give you good power in a smaller coach. My 2005 Diplomat had a 400 ISL and was a ROCKET.

My sister currently has a 2004 Itasca Meridian 34' with the Cat 350 (C-7) and it's been a good handling coach (after some upgrades) and has plenty of power. From the sound of what you're looking for, the majority of the coaches will all have the exhaust brake. They work fine as long as you understand how to use them.

Here is a HUGE point that many miss when shopping for an older coach with a smaller engine. Many of the older coaches with the Cummins ISB (5.9) were mated to an Allison 2500 transmission. You cannot upgrade the power on any engine mated to the Allison 2500. Make sure whatever you buy has the Allison 3000 (most popular trans). The 3000 allows room for engine upgrades/tweaks if desired.

I guess the point I'm making is....stay above 34' with at least a Cummins ISC or Cat C-7 and you won't regret your purchase. Anything smaller and you might as well keep your gas coach.
__________________
Don & Mary
2014 Newmar Dutch Star - All Electric - 450 ISL
2016 GMC Canyon 4WD Crew Cab
Dutch Star Don is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2015, 08:24 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 36
Thanks All and Don especially, your bottom line advice of stay above 34' with at least C-7 or ISC engine.

Although, I did have a some 34' model coaches in my list of possiblities....they are.....

2006 and 2007 Fleetwood Bounder...Cat C-7
2006 Journey 34Y.....not sure of the engine on this one
2007 Meridian 34H...Cat C-7

Don, I think you were saying make 34' your minimum length?

Your advice is helping me a lot to get my requirements and thus my list of possibles narrowed down

Jim
__________________
discus277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2015, 09:51 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
DDDonkey's Avatar
 
National RV Owners Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 450
Discus77,

I will give you my 2 cents and take it for what it is worth, I know there is tons of knowledge on this board, many with more than I. When I upgrade to a DP it will be at least a ISC or Cat C-9 or bigger. Here is my reason the Cat C-7 is too small, just under 7 liters and does not have sleeves in the cylinders so that if a rebuild in required the block must be pulled, same with the Cummins ISB (5.9 and 6.7). The bigger engines you can have an in-frame rail rebuild in most cases. Remember that there is no replacement for displacement.
__________________
2008 National SurfSide 34E (Bunk Model) Ford V10
Sold- 1990 Hawkins Chevy P30 454
DDDonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2015, 08:15 AM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 36
Thanks DDDonkey,

That is more good useful information about the the rebuild...but when I do go to the DP, sure hope not to have to do that...!!

Jim
__________________
discus277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2015, 11:25 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 36
What is the recommended oil change interval between the two engines...the Cummins ISC and the CAT C-9?

I am also going to have to consider where to get the service...I live near Beaufort SC halfway between Savannah and Charleston and if there was a good service dealer in or near Charleston, that would be my preference...

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks, Jim
__________________

__________________
discus277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
national



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
iRV2 v. Good Sam National Rallys VAParrothead iRV2.com International Rally 11 06-12-2014 05:54 AM
2007 Forest River Sun Seeker wfcentral Class C Motorhome Discussions 1 04-01-2014 12:02 AM
National Rally Attendees 2011 - 2013 Madame Boomer Rally Master's Forum 0 09-14-2013 06:17 AM
iRV2 2013 National Rally Event info Here! Janet H iRV2.com International Rally 25 09-09-2013 09:52 PM
National Rally Attendees 2000-2010 Madame Boomer Rally Master's Forum 0 08-13-2010 06:41 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.