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Old 08-03-2013, 10:22 AM   #127
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^^^ Never a good idea to get snippy (pardon the pun). But I'm with ya - L1 - L2 - G and N on 50 amp all the way. If anyone weren't needed - they wouldn't be there. Simple as that. It's not like folks are running needless lines for the fun of it.
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:27 PM   #128
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So if I cut the Neutral wire in my RV's shore power cord, everything will work O.K. since: "There is only one wire used in any circuit. One portion of the wire is connected to the power source and the "hot" side of the load. The other portion is connected to "neutral" side of the load and finds its way to ground by design, the same ground as the source (hot) uses. One wire per circuit. Load in the path."
I think his point was that the neutral is the 'return' part of his 'one wire concept'. Hence, if you cut the neutral, you interrupt the circuit.
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Old 08-03-2013, 05:15 PM   #129
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I think if Benjamin Franklin was alive........he sure would be interested in this thread, especially the dog-bone.......
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Old 08-03-2013, 05:20 PM   #130
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:41 AM   #131
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WDK450: WRONG!!! back at yea! The coil (can't write the name because of spelling) between the ground and neutral detects the micro-current difference and trips the gfci. Devices are parallel on the circuit but each device is in series from source to return. This is a loop. That is the only way it can work. As each load is added in parallel the current in the hot and return increases. If, on a gfci, the ground detects current it trips.
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:49 AM   #132
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^^^ Never a good idea to get snippy (pardon the pun). But I'm with ya - L1 - L2 - G and N on 50 amp all the way. If anyone weren't needed - they wouldn't be there. Simple as that. It's not like folks are running needless lines for the fun of it.
Needless and fun good electrical terms, maybe add safety duplication for G and N being that they come from the same source.
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:22 AM   #133
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WDK450: WRONG!!! back at yea! The coil (can't write the name because of spelling) between the ground and neutral detects the micro-current difference and trips the gfci. Devices are parallel on the circuit but each device is in series from source to return. This is a loop. That is the only way it can work. As each load is added in parallel the current in the hot and return increases. If, on a gfci, the ground detects current it trips.
Jerichorick.

YOUR PUTTING OUT BAD INFO!

The typical GFCI (like purchased at Lowes or Home depot) is designed to protect not only loads plugged into it but also the branch loads connected to the load output terminals; it protects all slaved outlets on a branch. A GFCI detects an imbalance of current passing through receptacle’s HOT and NEUTRAL lines. A GROUND line is not required for the GFCI to function. An imbalance can occur when current leaks (a fault) from the HOT or NEUTRAL to a ground line or earth ground or through an individual to earth ground. An imbalance can also occurs due to an inductive kick (e.g., a collapsing magnetic field from a motor, etc.) when an electrical device is turned off. The GFCI limits the fault current to sensed current of about 5 mA. JM2...
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:34 AM   #134
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WDK450: WRONG!!! back at yea! The coil (can't write the name because of spelling) between the ground and neutral detects the micro-current difference and trips the gfci. Devices are parallel on the circuit but each device is in series from source to return. This is a loop. That is the only way it can work. As each load is added in parallel the current in the hot and return increases. If, on a gfci, the ground detects current it trips.
If I was wrong, I apologize.

I homed in on the "there is only 1 wire" statement. I think it could be very misleading for the AC electrical novice. There is so much energy and danger to human life in those AC wires, that it is imperative that people get it right.

I spent a 30 year career in as a Hospital Biomedical Electronics Technician primarily ensuring that the febrile patient/neonate in an ICU/NICU bed was surrounded by SAFE electrical equipment that accurately helped treat and report the patient's condition to the medical staff. That is where my zeal comes from.
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:37 PM   #135
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If I was wrong, I apologize.

I homed in on the "there is only 1 wire" statement. I think it could be very misleading for the AC electrical novice. There is so much energy and danger to human life in those AC wires, that it is imperative that people get it right.

I spent a 30 year career in as a Hospital Biomedical Electronics Technician primarily ensuring that the febrile patient/neonate in an ICU/NICU bed was surrounded by SAFE electrical equipment that accurately helped treat and report the patient's condition to the medical staff. That is where my zeal comes from.
I hope we are only discussing and not being disgusting. I suffer with an old associate degree in electronics/electrical. I spent several years designing and building control circuits for emergency power generators used by the phone company in New England. My way of thinking and expressing myself is from this background. Forgive me if I have caused confusion.

I agree with the load side of a Ground Fault Circuit Indicator device being protected. Yes, the GFCI will trip if the hot and neutral are not balanced and no ground is wired to the GFCI. But in most cases the ground is present and current on it will also cause a trip. Then we have the arc fault device. I don't even want to go there!

When the GFCI is wired as designed it works fine and protects people first and equipment second. Isn't that all that counts???
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:47 AM   #136
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I spent several years designing and building control circuits for emergency power generators used by the phone company in New England.
Another telephone company guy. Should we create a phone company thread to trade stories?
Me 32 years, DW 23, My dad 43, mom 17, FIL 34. We even met at work.

Now that I am retired I can share some of our antics because they can't fire me anymore

Back on topic. I would bet that corrosion or wear on one of the plugs was the cause of the failure.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:54 PM   #137
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RVJIMMY SO what do you have AGAINST the cord reels?
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:39 AM   #138
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Was using a 25 ft 30A cord with dogbone. Recently noticed the plug on the cord turning black-looked burned. Also noticed smoke coming from plug when plugging in. No harm done though-just lucky I guess. Thanks for the heads up!!!!
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:43 AM   #139
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I moved to a KOA which wasn't always one. It's a mixture of mobile homes and RVs. Some spots had mobile homes, converted for RV use. This spot I'm at has a 60A breaker and the manager refers to it as 50A since it has a 50A outlet.

So.... yes. At this moment, I am in a 30A RV (which the manager knows, he said I'd need an adapter for this spot) plugged into a 50A outlet with a 60A breaker... at a KOA.

Of course they made me sign something saying I won't hold them liable for any losses due to staying here... but they make EVERYONE sign that who's monthly. (There is other terms on the form like agreeing to pay the metered electric, etc). There are travel trailers on both sides of me that are probably 30A plugged into 60A breakers as well.
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:52 AM   #140
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I moved to a KOA which wasn't always one. It's a mixture of mobile homes and RVs. Some spots had mobile homes, converted for RV use. This spot I'm at has a 60A breaker and the manager refers to it as 50A since it has a 50A outlet.

So.... yes. At this moment, I am in a 30A RV (which the manager knows, he said I'd need an adapter for this spot) plugged into a 50A outlet with a 60A breaker... at a KOA.

Of course they made me sign something saying I won't hold them liable for any losses due to staying here... but they make EVERYONE sign that who's monthly. (There is other terms on the form like agreeing to pay the metered electric, etc). There are travel trailers on both sides of me that are probably 30A plugged into 60A breakers as well.


very ineresting post. basically an accident waiting for a time to happen. Thank you for your post. I am not a big fan of KOA so I rarely stay there. That increases the odds against me being parked next to you. Good luck to you and your fellow tenants in your park. I hope you dont have any bad luck from your electrical connections.
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