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Old 11-19-2013, 08:28 AM   #15
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I just traded away my 2004 Horizon 40ad, and here's some pros and cons on that coach;

It's an excellent floor plan, one slide in the bedroom is very nice, the side TV is the best layout IMO, plenty of basement storage.

Winnebago is still in business, so you are not buying an orphan. They have an excellent website which posts all the wiring and plumbing schematics. Their customer service over the phone has been very helpful to me over the years. Online parts are readily available thru a couple of dealers in iowa.

The basement air is less-than-adequate for any 40' model, so I D-I-Y added a rooftop air and the results were excellent. Adding a roof air as an adjuct to basement air It is a good system, and in shorter coaches without full body paint is very adequate. Expect some major work to get the basement air working properly, it is basically two separate systems built in one unit. Once you remove the a/c from the coach D-I-Y, it can be serviced by any willing residential hvac tech. Lots of threads on this service.

All Winnies with basement air have ductwork running behind the rear cap up to and thru the ceiling. The ducts are made of foam board wrapped in foil, and are notorious for cracking at the seams. Climb under the right rear and with a flashlight look up alongside the ductwork, if split seams are down low they can be repaired D-I-Y. If split seams are found higher up, the repair requires removal of the rear cap($2000).

In 2004 the trans did NOT come with factory installed Transynd, so without records you must assume that the trans fluid needs to be changed over(2X) to Transynd($600).

Buying a m/h without service records means you need to start over with ALL maintenance to establish a baseline($3000). This means all fluids, filters, and belts need to be replaced, and probably an alignment too.

The original coolant tank on the engine(top rear, easily visible) was made of plastic and they ALL crack. It must be changed over to a metal tank, about $500 as I recall.

Expect to need all new TV/audio/Sat dish and wiring on any coach 10 years old.

Expect to need all new tires($4000+).

Check the operation of all slides, smooth, no binding, no gaps, no grinding. Check the operation of the jacks, smooth up and down, and easy to level. Slides and jacks are all operated by one HWH pump, which are excellent if well maintained.

Walk the roof to inspect for cracks, adequate caulking, sealing, etc. Inspect interior for any signs of water leakage, smoking, pets.

The RestEasy coach is comfortable to sit, but a real backbreaker to sleep on. Expect to replace it.

Standard engine was a Cat, very few were installed, most came with Cummins. In 2004 the Horizon/Vectra was optionally available with the 350 ISC(with exhaust brake, and 1050# torque), but in 2005 and later it became optionally available with the 400 ISL(with 2-stage engine brake, and 1200# torque)... I would much prefer the 400ISL engine, with the better engine brake and higher torque) in the 2005 and later models. If you never venture into the hills and mountains then not a factor.

You may find a 350 ISC with the Banks Power Pack, which was an excellent power upgrade, but it's no longer available, and no replacement circuit boards are available. Steer clear of this.

In 2006 thru 2008 they discontinued the 40ad model and replaced it with the 40kd, which is a very similar floor plan but they added a 4th slide. They also raised the ceiling about 6", which is an important advantage. In the 2004-5 40ad the Norcold(get rid of it) refrig is in the PS slide, and the slide box is about 1" too short to accommodate a Samsung 197 residential refrigerator. The additional slide height in the 2006 and later models make refrig replacement much easier. The front door is wide enough to bring in most any refrig with the refrig doors removed.

Depending on condition, added upgrades, and maintenance needed, I would expect to pay $80-90k tops, maybe a good bit less. And, I would allow at least $10k for fix-ups after the sale.

Mileage is not an issue per se, but the 22k coach only averaged 2200 miles/year, which is underuse. I would suspect the previous owner(s) never felt the need to do routine maintenance or replace tires as it was seldom driven.

There are plenty of 2004-5 Horizon/Vectra 40ad on the market, so don't accept the first one you see. It's an excellent model, at the right price you'll have a nice coach.
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:55 PM   #16
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66000 miles vs 22000 miles 2004 350 Cummins

Thanks so much for all the information and wonderful response from everyone. Very much appreciated! Does anyone know where we could take Cummins engine oil sample to be tested in the Phoenix-Mesa area?
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:02 PM   #17
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Thanks so much for all the information and wonderful response from everyone. Very much appreciated! Does anyone know where we could take Cummins engine oil sample to be tested in the Phoenix-Mesa area?
Any heavy truck service shop/truckstop with service should be able to send it off for analysis.

As others have stated, I'd be wary of anything that expensive without service records...I have mine since mile 0 (that's 29 years worth!).

Oh, and to answer your original question, with proper maintenance I'd see no difference between the 22k and 60k at least on the engine/tranny...I'm not familiar with the chassis so I don't know how "industrial" they are built.
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:15 PM   #18
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...i was told by dealer that service records are not availale due to privacy laws...!
That dealer is lying through his teeth. He is playing you for a chump. And if he is lying about this, what other lies will he tell you to get your business?

I would not buy a newspaper from this guy!

There are lots of coaches out there to buy. Walk away from this one.
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Thanks so much for all the information and wonderful response from everyone. Very much appreciated! Does anyone know where we could take Cummins engine oil sample to be tested in the Phoenix-Mesa area?

Blackstone Labs, Ft. Wayne, IN. I would also send trans fluid sample.
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:44 AM   #20
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Could be that the dealer never received the records or doesn't want to go through the hassle. Ask the dealer to contact the previous owner to see if they would be OK with sharing the info and service records. I know I would not want my info given out by a dealer without my permission. I bet he is just protecting his customer or could be lazy. He might not even have info if the coach came from auction ect. We won't give out customer info over the phone or by fax for fear of a lawsuit. Customer info is a touchy subject. We have had ex spouses try to get info for divorce purposes. Private investigators posing as customers saying they lost their paperwork and asking us to fax it to them. If you can imagine it, its happened. I would clarify what he meant and I would bet he meant company policy not privacy law. We have to provide a form to all customers stating what we will and will not do with their personal info. They have to sign off on it and that form is LAW. If he wants the sale he will try and get you the records. Give them the benefit of the doubt and if they can't provide the info then you have a decision to make. Everybody wants to label the dealer a liar right off the bat. For those of you that think you are doing the next owner a favor by leaving your service info in the vehicle, i would think twice about it. There was a report out that had a group of identity thieves going around to dealers. They would look at some of the luxury vehicles, get previous owner info out of the glovebox and use it for their crime. Another group was getting info in the same manner and robbing houses. If your going to leave info in the unit then at least remove your name and address from the paperwork.
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:02 AM   #21
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Here is a link to just some of the privacy laws that dealers have to contend with.

FTC's Privacy Rule and Auto Dealers: FAQs | BCP Business Center

Many have to do with info derived from obtaining financing for customers which would include such simple info as a customers name. The rules are very complicated and most dealers keep themselves safe by not giving out any information at all. When the salesman said there are privacy laws, he was not lying. If however he does have access to the service records, there are ways to pass them along to a prospective customer without revealing the customers information.
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Old 11-20-2013, 09:49 AM   #22
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Here is a link to just some of the privacy laws that dealers have to contend with.

FTC's Privacy Rule and Auto Dealers: FAQs | BCP Business Center

Many have to do with info derived from obtaining financing for customers which would include such simple info as a customers name. The rules are very complicated and most dealers keep themselves safe by not giving out any information at all. When the salesman said there are privacy laws, he was not lying. If however he does have access to the service records, there are ways to pass them along to a prospective customer without revealing the customers information.

It appears the law you linked to deal with financing issues. Records of maintenance should not be covered under those statutes.
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Old 11-20-2013, 10:04 AM   #23
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I wouldn't buy a rig without service records and I wouldn't buy from a dealer who lies about privacy laws.....If that were a true statement then there would be no service records for anything......Does he think your dumb? He isn't an honest dealer and I would have nothing to do with the dealership.
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Old 11-20-2013, 10:11 AM   #24
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Sounds like there was a lemon law return.They resale as used and its your problem way around the law.Buyer beware RUN FOREST RUN JMO
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:52 PM   #25
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As I stated in my post it does deal with financing. Which also includes something as simple as the customers name and address. If the previous customer financed the new coach he was trading it in on, you cannot release the info. PERIOD! Read on....there is a lot more I just didn't want to bore you with it.
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Old 11-22-2013, 09:00 PM   #26
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how do you conclude its a possible lemon law issue???? amazing the distrust that is perpetuated by people that don't even know the specifics. dealer doesn't have service records......must be a lemon law flood unit rebuilt salvage dog owning smokers coach! If a coach was involved in a lemon law case, you would never know it.
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