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Old 09-12-2013, 09:25 AM   #29
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UPDATE!!

I brought the batteries back to Sam's and they agreed to refund full price or replace them.
I asked for replacement, HOWEVER, it turns out that Sam's no longer carries these batteries, AND Duracell no longer makes these batteries! There are however 4 of these batteries still in stock at another Sam's nearby that they are willing to give me.

I'm not sure that I want to replace these batts with batts that have been discontinued by Duracell.

Does anyone know why Duracell stopped making these GC2AGM - 6V batteries??

Any suggestions for an alternative AGM replacement?
...or should I justy go with those darned wet-cells?
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:27 AM   #30
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Probably Duracell had too many problems with the batteries however, there aren't that many battery manufactures in the country. Usually, one manufacturer will make the same batteries for multiple distributors.

I would try the four that Sam's has at another store but with the agreement that if they do the same thing then Sam's will either give you a full refund and go buy the AGM's someplace else or have Sam's install the wet cell GC2's.

I am using the GC2's. They been in over one year now without having any problems whatsoever. Plus I seldom have to add distilled water due to using the Water Miser Caps. Plus I use the PowerPulse to keep them sulfating.

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Old 09-12-2013, 10:35 AM   #31
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I wouldn't get those Duracells for obvious reasons. Personally, I wouldn't get AGMs either, only because I have no use for them, especially because of cost.

I have two Trojan GC2 that were a few years old when I got my coach. I immediately trashed the single stage charger and replaced with a Progessive Dynamics PD9200 Series. I then kept watching the water level and watching and watching. Finally after being plugged in 24/7 for 10 months, I got to add a little water. I now check them twice a year and add water once. They are now approaching 8 years and they still test fine and no corrosion can be found anywhere.

The thinking wet cells are a pain, take a lot of maintance and the outgassing causes corrosion problems WAS 100% true. This is back when all chargers were single stage and they just boiled the batteries 24/7. Now with multi-stage 'smart chargers', this is just not true anymore.

Unless you need to keep your batteries in living space or on their side, AGMs are only a state of mind and it makes you feel good spending 3 times the money you need to.

AGMs will certainly replace wets (most cases) in the future and Lithium will replace those. None of this will happen until the price goes down enough. Until then, wet GC2s with be the best buy per dollar per AH. Just my experience and opinion.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:57 AM   #32
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I would also avoid those Duracells given your experience. Replace them with either wet cell or good quality AGM (e.g. Lifeline).
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:27 AM   #33
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THANKS FOR THE REPLIES.

Being that we seldom use the MoHo, and it sits in a storage yard, not plugged in, I am tempted to go with AGMs again. However, the cost is now weighing on me, especially since we have mnot been getting much use out of the MH.

I have now read several hundred posts on the battery conflict on iRV2, and certainly there are an equal number of proponents as opponents for every single battery option one can think of -- including resorting to two 12V AGMs.

I think I spent about $900 for the 4 Duracell 6V GC2-AGMs from Sams, and I think Lifelines are about $1200 for 4?
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:52 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo View Post
THANKS FOR THE REPLIES.

Being that we seldom use the MoHo, and it sits in a storage yard, not plugged in, I am tempted to go with AGMs again. However, the cost is now weighing on me, especially since we have mnot been getting much use out of the MH.

I have now read several hundred posts on the battery conflict on iRV2, and certainly there are an equal number of proponents as opponents for every single battery option one can think of -- including resorting to two 12V AGMs.

I think I spent about $900 for the 4 Duracell 6V GC2-AGMs from Sams, and I think Lifelines are about $1200 for 4?
Hi...Sorry for your trouble. some further thoughts:
You have definitely toasted the batteries with over charging. You need a good three stage charger with settings for AGM
that does bulk charging at no more than 14.5 V, absorbtion ramping down to 13.8V and FLOAT charge at 13.2.
It will kill AGMS if you leave them on constant float charge after they've come up to 100%...this is particularly true if the temperature they are residing in is above 80degrees. DEFORMATION can also occur at very high storage temps which can occur in hot coaches in the sun. They should be removed in this case during storage. Otherwise...Best bet is to charge them fully and then leave them unplugged and let them self drain slowly and recharge every couple of months during storage. ...UNLESS you have parasitic loads in which case you need to put an ammeter on your positive cable and see what the amp draw is...then use that number to see how many days you have between charging cycles.
(FOUR 6V golf cart batteries will allow you to use 225 amp hours before needing recharging. So...if you have a 1 amp parasitic load...you have about 10 days (225/24) before you need to recharge again. 1/2 amp...20 days/ 1/4amp 40 days. )

By all means..stick with AGM's in your situation since they do 10x better HOLDING a charge in storage than wet cells, and they are easier to take care of. Of course they are far more expensive than wet cells...but that is of no consequence in this case.
Here's a clue too...DURACELL NEVER MADE ANY AGM BATTERIES. They pasted their label on batteries made by one of the other major Mfr.s...so I would not worry about them being out of business. They probably didn't do well with them in a limited market and decided to get out of that market.
Sams club did a lot of business with Johnson and EastPenn battery mfrs/ so it wouldn't be surprising if one of them made the Duracells.
...Heh...just checked in Google...YOU HAVE EAST PENN/DEKA batteries as I thought. East Penn Releases New Duracell Automotive Batteries
YOUR Duracells are the FUNCTIONAL equivilent of the Deka Marine Intimidator Series model GC2 should you ever need to replace one or more.

If you decide to make a change from the Duracells...and if you have the width...you might consider putting in a pair of Intimidator 8d 12V batteries and getting rid of the extra cabling while picking up an extra 100 amp hours. They are available on line for $550 or so.

Hope the above was helpful and good luck!
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:43 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
You need a good three stage charger with settings for AGM that does bulk charging at no more than 14.5 V, absorbtion ramping down to 13.8V and FLOAT charge at 13.2.

Best bet is to charge them fully and then leave them unplugged and let them self drain slowly and recharge every couple of months during storage.

By all means..stick with AGM's in your situation since they do 10x better HOLDING a charge in storage than wet cells, and they are easier to take care of. Of course they are far more expensive than wet cells...but that is of no consequence in this case.
Here's a clue too...DURACELL NEVER MADE ANY AGM BATTERIES.

YOU HAVE EAST PENN/DEKA batteries as I thought. East Penn Releases New Duracell Automotive Batteries
YOUR Duracells are the FUNCTIONAL equivilent of the Deka Marine Intimidator Series model GC2 should you ever need to replace one or more.

If you decide to make a change from the Duracells...and if you have the width...you might consider putting in a pair of Intimidator 8d 12V batteries... picking up an extra 100 amp hours. They are available on line for $550 or so.
Cam! Very appreciative of this advice!
1) Yes, the temps have been very high here, but I also am uncertain about my charger. I think I will spend the money to get another charger/maintainer.
ANY RECOMMENDATIONS, AS, LIKE BATTERIES, THERE ARE AN OVERWHELMING NUMBER OF OPTIONS??

2) I'll turn off the circuit to the batts when not in use. No, there should not be any parasitic drain on the MH while in storage.

3) Great about the Sam's Club-DEKA batts -- I know a Sam's that still has them in stock. Thanks for the research -- I would not have known how to proceed to check.

4) I'll check the Intimidator 8d 12V batteries. If they are $550 for 2, then I'm in; if $550 each, I'll go with the DEKA's again.

Thanks again.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:30 PM   #36
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See comments in RED below! You are most welcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo View Post
Cam! Very appreciative of this advice!
1) Yes, the temps have been very high here, but I also am uncertain about my charger. I think I will spend the money to get another charger/maintainer.
ANY RECOMMENDATIONS, AS, LIKE BATTERIES, THERE ARE AN OVERWHELMING NUMBER OF OPTIONS??
For your specific battery configuration...I'd recommend the Sterling Power 40amp charger. Marine Battery Charger - Power Factor Controled (PFC) ProCharge Ultra- PCU
You could also go up one if the budget allows...to the 50amp model..but I wouldn't go less than 40. Fairly expensive but GREAT technology that will take good care of your battery investment. Cheaper here: Sterling ProCharge Ultra 12 volt 40 Amp Batttery Charger
As you say there are lots of models...and prices. I'd just focus on getting a charger that provides at least 40 amps...and has 3 stage charging with bulk rate of 14.4 or 14.5V and float rate of no higher than 14.2V.
Note to others reading: DIFFERENT ADVICE applies for Wet Cells and different size banks.


2) I'll turn off the circuit to the batts when not in use. No, there should not be any parasitic drain on the MH while in storage.
The may BE parasitic drain that you are unaware of. Checking with an ammeter is easy and may reveal things you don't know. Failing that...simply disconnect the chassis negative from the batts before storing and there will NOT be any parasitic drain!


3) Great about the Sam's Club-DEKA batts -- I know a Sam's that still has them in stock. Thanks for the research -- I would not have known how to proceed to check.
Glad that helps.


4) I'll check the Intimidator 8d 12V batteries. If they are $550 for 2, then I'm in; if $550 each, I'll go with the DEKA's again.
They're $550 each providing 500 amp hours for 1100 bucks. Your 2 pairs of 6V's supply a little under 400 amp hours...just a suggestion for when you are actually buying again. Take the freebies and run as the offer to replace those is EXTRAORDINARY since East Penn will definitely not cover those under warranty!

Thanks again.
Let us know how it all works out in the end!
Best...
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:44 AM   #37
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Your Coach Battery's are being over-charged. Have the on board coach battery charger checked. When plugged into shore power (or generator) this device runs on 115 Volts AC, and converts that voltage to 13.6 Volts DC to keep your coach battery's charged. If the charger loses its ability to sense over charge" condition it will continue to charge your battery's.. effectively boiling off the water in the cells and therefor deforming the battery's.

A easy fix, buy a new battery charger for about $100 for a 60 amp unit.
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:16 AM   #38
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Question to both WB21VU and Cam...
I have an inverter (Xantrex, came with this 03 HR Endeavor) -- it has some kind of black box "IRD" hooked in (I will try to post pics).
Are you recommending the kind of charger that stays hooked up, that is idiot-proof -- that whenever I have the generator or shore power, it will automatically charge/maintain the batteries?
I read the Sterling ProCharger info site, and while i saw that it is mounted permanently, I still was unsure if it is the sort of thing that is a "hook up and forget" type of device.

Thanks.
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:20 AM   #39
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oops wrong pics

Oops posted wrong pics of the IRD.
Here they are.
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Old 09-14-2013, 03:16 PM   #40
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I've had wet cell and AGM over the years. Went to AGM after repeated corrosion etc with wet. Lifeline is one I use. Not cheap neither is my time, oldest set in coach dates from '07. Key is to to make sure no parasite load drawing them down. When not in use mine will set 4 months without discharge.
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Old 09-14-2013, 03:49 PM   #41
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Latest update

LATEST UPDATE!

I went to Sam's across the bridge and they had about 10 of the 6V Duracell GC2-AGM batteries. HOWEVER, at least half of them had wrinkled/warped battery cases JUST LIKE MINE! And these were brand new batteries (well, they had not be put into circulation yet)!

Of course, the sales people there knew nothing about the meaning of this.
I got my money back on my 1-year old batteries, but retained ownership of them.

I took the most warped battery to NAPA to be tested, and it came up "REPLACE", however, I'm not sure the salesman knew what he was doing -- or if the battery was fully charged.

I am re-charging the battery, and will have retested.
I will also contact DEKA and ask them what they think (Cam tracked down that these Duracells were actually DEKAs).

Any suggestions?
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Old 09-14-2013, 08:51 PM   #42
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Trash the batteries and spend the bucks for the Lifeline AGM's or go back to Sam's and buy a set of the wet cell GC-2's.

I wouldn't mess around with the ones that you still have. How did you talk Sam's into them refunding your money BUT then you get to keep the batteries too???

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