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Old 07-16-2017, 03:29 PM   #1
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98 Ford F53 Engine Stall out

Hi
I have a Damon Daybreak 1998 with a ford 460 engine.
I was going down the highway and decided to stop to get fuel ( had a half tank on board). The weather was warm 81 deg. the coach was running great.
Pull up to the pump and the engine starts to shudder, misfire, backfire through the exhaust and dies.
Will not start and backfires through the exhaust again, so I quit trying to start and start calling AAA to get a tow.
When the tow truck shows the driver asks if he can try to start it, when he turns on the key and cranks it over it starts and runs great.
We look at each other and he says make a run for home and see what happens.
I put in 25 gallons of gas and head down the highway at 70 mph and in 2 hours I am home and it is still running fine.

I am looking for any ideas on what happened?
One thing I noticed is that the last trip out the tach started to jump around and not reregister correct RPM but it did not effect the operation at all.

The engine was not running, about a quarter of the gauge up.

Any suggestions what to look for or replace would be great.
Thanks in advance.
Gordo
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:36 PM   #2
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The first part of your story sounds like classic failing fuel pump. A fuel pressure gauge can help diagnose if that is the culprit. Should hold 39 psi under load.
The tach issue could be bad wire or ground.
Then you state "The engine was not running, about a quarter of the gauge up." Sorry, but no idea what you are trying to say there.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:01 PM   #3
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What I meant to say is that the engine was not running hot, the gauge was about 1/4 of the way up from cold just in the beginning of the normal range.
I was trying to rule out vapor lock of the fuel.


But when it started up half hour later it ran fine for the next 2 hours, so that leads me to believe that the fuel pump is not the problem.
Still looking for answers.
Gordo
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:33 PM   #4
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I agree with Nick-B that the fuel pump and wires are your culprit.

A fuel pump can build heat until it fails. Cool off and then start working again.
It probably won't be long until a complete failure appears.

The tach jumping around is most likely a bad wire or ground as stated above.
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:42 PM   #5
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A 1998 should be OBD-II. Any codes, pending or set?
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:48 PM   #6
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Also sounds like a cam or crank sensor acting up.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:57 PM   #7
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Odrog, a fuel injected system will never vapor lock unless the fuel pump is failing and not maintaining full pressure. Engine temp is not a good indicator as the fuel pump itself is generating heat and an old failing pump will generate lots of heat till it seizes up. As bigcrisp noted, once it cools off it will start working again. Then adding fresh, cool fuel to the tank (as you did) will keep it running for a while longer yet.
Borrow, rent or buy a fuel injection pressure tester.
FYI, all 460 F53s were OBD1 and need a Ford specific code reader. A failing fuel pump won't set a code.
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Old 07-20-2017, 11:56 AM   #8
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I got a pressure gauge to test the pump but I can't find the port on the rail to connect to.
Do i need an adaptor to put in the line coming to the rail?
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Old 07-20-2017, 01:10 PM   #9
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OK, I found the test port after removing the intake hoses and put the gauge on the line.
Not running it has 30 pounds pressure, after I started it up it jumped up to 32 lbs. and then back down to 30.
I revved it up and it went up a few pounds and then leveled back down to 30 lbs.
I removed the vacuum line from the regulator and it jumped to 40 lbs and stayed there until the plugged the hose back on the regulator and then back down to 30 and was steady.
I am not sure how accurate the gauge is but this is in the limits of the pump pressure.
Any other suggestions.
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Old 07-20-2017, 04:32 PM   #10
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Just a pound or 2 low can cause problems. Here in Az fuel pumps are a common issue. We found that sometimes the brush springs in the pump are weak and the brushes do not contact the armature properly. A milliamp test when the engine has stalled on the pump will reveal this. Our wrecker drivers used to carry a plastic headed hammer to tap the bottom of the tank to jar the brushes if the vehicle was in an area difficult to tow it from.
The pump is cooled by the fuel so the more fuel in a tank in hot weather the better.
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Old 07-20-2017, 05:17 PM   #11
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Those pressures are acceptable. The question now is will it maintain those pressures when under load and hot.
It could be an electrical issue but it still sounds like classic failing fuel pump to me.
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Old 07-21-2017, 04:32 AM   #12
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Crankshaft position sensor??
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Old 07-21-2017, 05:36 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odrog View Post
Hi
I have a Damon Daybreak 1998 with a ford 460 engine.
I was going down the highway and decided to stop to get fuel ( had a half tank on board). The weather was warm 81 deg. the coach was running great.
Pull up to the pump and the engine starts to shudder, misfire, backfire through the exhaust and dies.
Will not start and backfires through the exhaust again, so I quit trying to start and start calling AAA to get a tow.
When the tow truck shows the driver asks if he can try to start it, when he turns on the key and cranks it over it starts and runs great.
We look at each other and he says make a run for home and see what happens.
I put in 25 gallons of gas and head down the highway at 70 mph and in 2 hours I am home and it is still running fine.

I am looking for any ideas on what happened?
One thing I noticed is that the last trip out the tach started to jump around and not reregister correct RPM but it did not effect the operation at all.

The engine was not running, about a quarter of the gauge up.

Any suggestions what to look for or replace would be great.
Thanks in advance.
Gordo


Not sure if your 98 has a distributor or not , if so I would replace the ignition module and pickup if not I'd replace the crank sensor
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Old 07-21-2017, 06:00 AM   #14
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I was kind of thinking that might be the problem.
It does have a distributor and the more I think about it the way it was running when the trouble started was like the spark went out and was firing randomly on the cylinders using hot carbon deposits to ingnite the fuel and backfiring through the exhaust system.
Does anyone know where I can the module on a 98 Damon Daybreak?

When I was testing the fuel pressure I noticed a random miss once that went away as the rpm increased.
Any suggestions.
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