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Old 02-25-2011, 04:49 PM   #1
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After market air filter

Has anyone retrofitted there MH with an after market free flow
air filter or cold air set up. I have a 08 Fleetwood Expedition on a Freightliner chassis and the 6.7 Cummins and was wondering if anyone has removed the factory air filter and duct work to the side intake for a cleanable type filter.
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:40 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynaride99 View Post
Has anyone retrofitted there MH with an after market free flow
air filter or cold air set up. I have a 08 Fleetwood Expedition on a Freightliner chassis and the 6.7 Cummins and was wondering if anyone has removed the factory air filter and duct work to the side intake for a cleanable type filter.
I was going to do the same thing but heard that the reuseable filters let too much dirt in. I would rather not experiment with my Motorhome. If you do a search of K&N or Air Filters there is a bunch of information on this subjuct.
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:51 PM   #3
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Chuck, never heard that K&N reusable airfilter let in dirt. They are used in cross desert racing in the Sahara and Baja and have never been a problem. They keep that fine sand out. I have used them on all my cars since the 1970's and never had a problem.

I have not found a big K&N that fits my MH at a discount store on-line yet. The only place I have found them so far is at the K&N store for $299.

For heavy duty diesel filters go here and look
K&N Washable Heavy Duty Replacement Air Filters

If you know the part number of your DP airfilter then go here
http://www.knfilters.com/search/cross_reference.aspx
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:07 PM   #4
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Chuck, never heard that K&N reusable airfilter let in dirt. They are used in cross desert racing in the Sahara and Baja and have never been a problem. They keep that fine sand out. I have used them on all my cars since the 1970's and never had a problem.

I have not found a big K&N that fits my MH at a discount store on-line yet. The only place I have found them so far is at the K&N store for $299.

For heavy duty diesel filters go here and look
K&N Washable Heavy Duty Replacement Air Filters

If you know the part number of your DP airfilter then go here
K&N Air Filter Cross Reference Search - Oil Filter Cross Reference
iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > MH-General Discussions & Problems K and N Air Filter


Hi Mike,
What I was saying is that there is a whole bunch of posts dealing with the good or bad aspects of using reusable foam filters. They also get into the misuse of the filters by using too much or not enough oil in them. I would think that for people that do their own maintanance, keeping the foam type air cleaner serviced, would not be a problem. If you tend to let things go, thats bad, very bad. Take a look at the above Forum. It runs from good to bad. Like everything else, one has to make up their own mind wether it's good for them or not.
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:24 PM   #5
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Chuck, the K&N is not a foam air filter and is woven material. The heavy duty ones for DP and big trucks are not oiled and are heavy duty enough that they can be washed with a pressure washer. I do agree that reusable foam filters are bad because they can come apart and get ingested into the motor. On the regular K&N filters I have never had a problem oiling them using their special oil. If the filter is cleaned correctly it goes almost white and the oil is dyed red so it is easy to see if the whole filter is oiled evenly. I have purposely over oiled the filter on my pickup and after a day driving the excess oil is gone so no problem. I have never had a K&N filter come apart and I have had the one in the BMW installed since 1995.
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:29 PM   #6
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K & N

I do used oil analysis.

I, and many others, have found that K & N cleanable air filter elements let dirt into the engine oil. Not good if you ask me.

I do believe that the K & N elements are freer flowing and could increase power at wide open throttle vs a stock element.

I'd use a K & N for racing, but not on my MHs or daily drivers.

I hope this helps.
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:03 PM   #7
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I have been an ASE Master Auto Tech for 30yrs, and have been managing a smog test and repair shop now for the past 6yrs.

I've raced cars, buggies, and motocross bikes for yrs. I've researched this air filter subject thoroughly.

I run a WIX air filter. Why? Because all the test data I've seen shows that a good paper air filter will filter the air just fine for pavement use, and those oiled ones don't filter any better.

I did use the really good foam overlay ones on the buggies & bikes because of the extreme dusty conditions, and I was cleaning them after every race anyway.

Just remove the paper filter and lightly blow out the dirt (from the inside out) with compressed air once or twice a yr, then replace the filter every yr or 2.

We are talking pavement vehicles here, so there is not tons of dirt getting thrown into the intake.

Another fact: Many of the vehicles that come into the shop with K&Ns will have a check engine lite on due to the minute particles of oil & cotton fiber coming off the filter element and contaminating the Mass Air Flow Sensor. Most of the time we can just remove it and spray clean it with Mass Air Flow Sensor Cleaner. Sometimes that oil will kill the part, and we will have to replace it. They aren't cheap.

You can google and find many sites that have done testing to see what I'm talking about.

Also....if you don't oil a K&N properly, it won't work, and LOTS of dirt will get thru. Just take a new one out of the box & hold it up & look thru it towards a light. You will actually SEE some pretty large dots of light. Those are holes that let dirt thru. Its the oil that helps 'cling' the dirt to the cotton fiber.

We used to be a K&N distributor several yrs back, but these MAF sensor problems caused us to do the ethical thing for our customers and stop.

K&N was designed for Carbureted race vehicles in a dusty environment.
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:09 PM   #8
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Wow, OK I am a 40 year diehard gear head and tune professional supercharged alcohol fed dragracing cars so I can't help myself here and I have questions on that. So how does dirt get through the K&N filter and past the piston rings into the oil? That is three sets of rings and an oil scraper on each piston. If dirt particles are getting past rings then oil would also be getting past the other way and the engine would be smoking. If very fine dirt got past the air filter into the cylinders it would be so fine that it would be burned off during combustion. Also, if something is showing up in the oil analysis then the question is why isn't the oil filter doing its job and filtering it out? Sounds like a problem in the oil filter. We don't use any air filters on our supercharged cars and some tracks in Florida, and Arizona have blowing sand on them and we never see that get past everything into the oil. Sometimes I even see sand turned to fine glass particles on the sparkplug center porcelein.

Mr300ce you don't put oil on the big truck and DP K&N air filters.
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Old 02-25-2011, 09:35 PM   #9
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Mike thanks for the link. This is what I was looking for. I run K&N filters on my F250 7.3 and H-D, and a filter from AMSOIL with thier Nano media in my daily driver but could not find one for the MH. I have read about turbo dusting and oil containation from the use of cotton gauze filters but from my experiance I think that is a result of improper maintenance and use. I clean mine on a schedule of number of mile's or every 6-8 months regardles of the mile's. That way I know the oil is still active enough to tack hold any dirt.
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:01 PM   #10
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Aftermarket Air Intakes/Filters - Do They Work? - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums
is good enough for me. I used to run a K&N filter until I began to notice very fine dust downstream of the filter; and that both before after re-newing the filter with the recharge kit. That air filter test was performed to, and conformed to ISO standards.
I also believe the test results apply to all engines using the oiled K&N filter, not just a Duramax.
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Old 02-25-2011, 11:13 PM   #11
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Filters

In the 80s & 90s I spent many yrs as a hobbyist & professional drag racer. Also, I spent 30+ yrs as a professional pilot where my passengers and my life always depended on engines, oils, and filters. It was in my best interest to know all I could on such matters.

When the air filter element doesn't do a good job of filtering(K & N), then dirt in the atmosphere gets past it and into the combustion chamber, and finally into engine oil the same way all combustion by-products get there, past the rings. Why do you think oil changes color?

Knowing what I know about ring & piston design, race pistons and rings are designed quite differently than they are for stock type engines. I'm not about to educate anybody on such things.

Race cars engines get oil changes after every race and totally rebuilt sooner, not later, so air filtering isn't the priority. Our MHs and daily drivers are quite the opposite and longevity is the name of the game. I've added engine oil bypass filter systems to my MH, and daily drivers to keep the engine oil cleaner longer.

Full flow oil filters aren't designed to filter particle sizes smaller than about 20 microns for two main reasons: 1) they would fill with contaminants too quickly and would start bypassing if not changed much more often, and 2) they would be too restrictive and starve the lubricating system, thus destroying the engine.

We hope this helps

Don
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:39 PM   #12
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Ray, IN, I read that report you provided the link for and thanks. What worries me in a "test" like that being conducted and published without knowing the credentials of the people doing the test. Just because it is on the internet does not make it true. How do we know that these guys that did this test do not work for a major air filter company such as FRAM, Puralator or WIX. I do agree that most vehicles hardly ever drive at a wide open throttle so the increased air flow probably doesn't make much difference to most. As far as letting through fine particles of dust then the question is what size particulate is a concern to a motor by the time it is first filtered by the air filter then filtered again by the oil filter. As said most oil filters are around 20 microns and let me tell you that is super fine. One micron is a millionth of a meter. This dot (.) is 400 to 617 microns depending on the resulution of your monitor so we are talking about something less that 20 microns. Bacteria is in the 0.1 to 10 micron range. The question is then what size particulate is bad for a bearing surface and that is normally dependent on what the salesman is trying to sell you. Some speciality filter companies want you to buy filters that go down to 5 microns.

Having said all that then there is a possibility that the test is totally valid and it still brings up the question on how big or small a particle has to be to do damage to a bearing surface. Then it also depends on the hardness of the particle
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Old 02-26-2011, 02:23 PM   #13
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OK guys, I'm sorry for helping getting this debate started. I think I'll go back to the Global Warming posts.
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Old 02-26-2011, 02:32 PM   #14
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I know one thing, My turbo overboosted on a heavy load, have no idea why, and it sucked the 4" rubber coupling between the new air filter and the intake closed so it does suck some air.Put me in limp mode. even with a new 4" filter my bypass indicator lifts up to about 18.
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