Air bag suspension truth and facts...

[LVRVLUVR]

Originally Posted by Sweetbriar

Based on the underlined statement you don't know how the valves work in an RV application. Read thru the below link which is the manufactures installation instructions on a very common ride height control valve. Notice the last line in the first paragraph? This applies to both extension and compression of the suspension.

http://www.heightcontrolvalve.com/do...structions.pdf

Next time do more research before posting. We're talking RV not some gear head who wants to make their truck bounce around at parking lot late night car shows.

I know exzact how the levers work... and how you do also...bye

[LVRVLUVR]

Originally Posted by Cdnw30

So many questions, where do I start.

1. What chassis are you referring to on a dp. They are NOT all the same. Some are real junk, and it sounds like you had one.

freightliner, and you are correct... but what else is there that is 34' or less?

2. What engine in your dp, sounds like you bought one of the underpowered ones, your mistake. ( If it doesn't have a least 1000-1200 ft lbs of torque you are underpowered)
again I bought what was available...on the freightliner..even went up to the 350 hp 850 torque

and again I listened to everyone say how they are rockets

3. Spring suspensions only ride smooth on a mh chassis when loaded near capacity. If loaded way under capacity you are driving a lumber wagon.
again i agree but the ford is the only chassis available... so that what Ibought

the front suspension is about 4k over rated for what my coach weighs

4. I drive a 22 year old mh on a gillig chassis, solid front axle, 8 air bag, original shocks I adjusted to the stiffest setting, and it drives like a dream. The roads I drive regularly are crap, but the bus rides fine.

lol, again.. you have a real motorhome..I would love to find a short coach with spartan, roadmaster, gillig chassis

5. On wash board roads, in a mh, it doesn't matter what you have for suspension. They all ride rough. Hell my Ford trucks just about bounce you right off the road on washboard.

another agreement...but I think that they should ride good on california high ways...I had to go across the 210 from onterio to the coast

[LVRVLUVR]

and just for the record... the p30 chassis used air bags to increase the GVWR

[CampDaven]

I have an RR10S chassis. Those with the knowledge that I don't care about, please tell me the wheel travel on my chassis, and why is not enough. Why would I ever need to know this?
Why not keep DP and air ride out of the research? It is not relevant to why I have a smooth ride on bad roads, nor what is required to pimp a gasser.
What is relevant is that my ride is awesome and I don't care why.
No offense to any front motor owners. I had 3 and loved them all.



Dave and Nola, RV Mutants

[LVRVLUVR]

and another thing... the only difference between a 16k ford chassis and a 18k chassis is the leaf springs....

where as if it was air bags it would be a lever adjustment

another thing that uper end coaches with the likes of spartan, roadmaster, gillig chassis found out real quick that they couldn't get the desired ride out of the common 4 bag chassis

and went to 8 bags....now you are talking real motorhome with a real chassis,,,

[CampDaven]

Originally Posted by LVRVLUVR

and another thing... the only difference between a 16k ford chassis and a 18k chassis is the leaf springs....



where as if it was air bags it would be a lever adjustment

Xlbs on an Xlb rated axel, is Xlbs no matter what is twixt the load and the axel. It's a physics thing


Dave and Nola, RV Mutants

[ahicks]

My hope is that people/potential Class A purchasers, take this discussion with a grain of salt. The OP, who is a self admitted frustrated DP owner, didn't like his because of a rough ride he received over a particular section of road he frequented. This being the case, he traded it in for a gasser that he likes, and would have you believe it's the greatest thing since sliced bread..

This experience has given him the level of expertise required to completely dismiss the opinions of thousands that disagree based on hundreds of thousands of miles of their own experience. Oh, and if that's not enough, these DP fans are into their opinions due to a superiority complex. Fine...

Yet to come up in the conversation regarding air bag ride harshness, is the potential for correct ride height adjustments to be quite critical. If the ride height is set incorrectly, to the high side, it would act just like it was on a set of springs that were too stiff, easily resulting in a very stiff ride (depending on how far off the settings are) kinda like riding in an empty truck. If set low, these same adjustments could lead to a very mushy riding top heavy feel that would bottom on every bump - again to a degree depending on the degree the adjustment is off.

The upside to this ride height system (set to it's optimum setting) is it's ability to be tuned automatically as loads change, maintaining correct ride and handling despite load changes that could amount to several hundred pounds or more (consider empty to full gas, water and LP tanks for instance). The likelihood of this system building up excessively in "bumps" might be legitimate on paper, but has not been an issue many others have experienced.

Bottom line, I'm sorry for his DP misadventure, but glad he found a coach he can live with.

[BRex45]

The OP tends to start a thread with a controversial statement, just view his posting HX. Unfortunately there are not enough facts to justify the first posting and the whole thread turned into air springs vs leaf springs and even a few gas vs diesel comments.

I enjoy hearing about RV'ers experiences, the RV's they own and where they have travelled. Can't say that about this thread.

[LVRVLUVR]

Originally Posted by ahicks

My hope is that people/potential Class A purchasers, take this discussion with a grain of salt. The OP, who is a self admitted frustrated DP owner, didn't like his because of a rough ride he received over a particular section of road he frequented. This being the case, he traded it in for a gasser that he likes, and would have you believe it's the greatest thing since sliced bread..

This experience has given him the level of expertise required to completely dismiss the opinions of thousands that disagree based on hundreds of thousands of miles of their own experience. Oh, and if that's not enough, these DP fans are into their opinions due to a superiority complex. Fine...

Yet to come up in the conversation regarding air bag ride harshness, is the potential for correct ride height adjustments to be quite critical. If the ride height is set incorrectly, to the high side, it would act just like it was on a set of springs that were too stiff, easily resulting in a very stiff ride (depending on how far off the settings are) kinda like riding in an empty truck. If set low, these same adjustments could lead to a very mushy riding top heavy feel that would bottom on every bump - again to a degree depending on the degree the adjustment is off.

The upside to this ride height system (set to it's optimum setting) is it's ability to be tuned automatically as loads change, maintaining correct ride and handling despite load changes that could amount to several hundred pounds or more (consider empty to full gas, water and LP tanks for instance). The likelihood of this system building up excessively in "bumps" might be legitimate on paper, but has not been an issue many others have experienced.

Bottom line, I'm sorry for his DP misadventure, but glad he found a coach he can live with.

lol... the reason I traded my DP for a gasser was to free up cash to buy a vacation home in havasu,,,..'


wish I still had it.. I had it riding pretty good... little slow on the hills ,but hey we got there and not that much different in time

on the 33'rs they all have the same little 300hp motors with the smaller trams..

now that the new ness of the home has worn off .. with wants a bigger coach

4 bag air ride will never ride like and 8 bag,...

which brings up anothe issue with the little freightliners...if you drop the pressure to where they ride good...the bags bottom out...

33-34-' dp don't ride like 42'rs with 8 bags suspension...

but to hear the replies , you would never know it...

like I said, I'm an expert ,... go rent one before you buy one...

[LVRVLUVR]

Originally Posted by BRex45

The OP tends to start a thread with a controversial statement, just view his posting HX. Unfortunately there are not enough facts to justify the first posting and the whole thread turned into air springs vs leaf springs and even a few gas vs diesel comments.

I enjoy hearing about RV'ers experiences, the RV's they own and where they have travelled. Can't say that about this thread.

well, I can say this... i would love to own a country coach

[NC25T]

Originally Posted by LVRVLUVR

the worst ting I see about most all the newer rv's is the straight axel front end..it is the cheapest way possible to suspend an rv!!

model "T" technology

If I recall you purchased a Jeep Wrangler not to long ago, you do realize that has solid front and rear axels... Model T tech at its finest... Have you seen a model T on one of those ramos where they test suspension travel? It's crazy good.... Almost comical

I know you mentioned you had a DP and went back to gas, which DP did you have? Did you try a few or only one DP?

[ahicks]

Originally Posted by LVRVLUVR

lol... the reason I traded my DP for a gasser was to free up cash to buy a vacation home in havasu,,,..'


wish I still had it.. I had it riding pretty good... little slow on the hills ,but hey we got there and not that much different in time

on the 33'rs they all have the same little 300hp motors with the smaller trams..

now that the new ness of the home has worn off .. with wants a bigger coach

4 bag air ride will never ride like and 8 bag,...

which brings up anothe issue with the little freightliners...if you drop the pressure to where they ride good...the bags bottom out...

33-34-' dp don't ride like 42'rs with 8 bags suspension...

but to hear the replies , you would never know it...

like I said, I'm an expert ,... go rent one before you buy one...

Let's not forget there are a few different airbags w/internal and external design differences that engineers can select from (4 bags or however many). All air bags are not created equally. Proper selection done there is similar to getting a sprung coach right. There's no universal "right" way to do it. You start with what works on paper, but then you need to get your hands dirty - and some companies just don't seem to get that. What works on paper goes into production there - leading to mistakes like the P30 airbag situation.

I hope those left on the fence here will drive several coaches - so you can
be the judge.

[cbilodeau]

Originally Posted by Sweetbriar

Based on the underlined statement you don't know how the valves work in an RV application. Read thru the below link which is the manufactures installation instructions on a very common ride height control valve. Notice the last line in the first paragraph? This applies to both extension and compression of the suspension.

http://www.heightcontrolvalve.com/do...structions.pdf

Next time do more research before posting. We're talking RV not some gear head who wants to make their truck bounce around at parking lot late night car shows.

The text says that it does not respond to short changes. But LVRVLUVR talks about a whole bad road. He is not talking about a single bump on a good road. The text says that the system will adjust dynamically to such a road just like LVRVLUVR said.

You should ask questions to this expert if you want to understand fully these system.

[slickest1]

Originally Posted by LVRVLUVR

lol did you read what I post??? i said the same thing,.. to increase cc you add air.. stiffer ride more air .. softer ride less air you can only carry the cc of the air bag, and if the air bag is more than the gvwr... you should not load past that...
and I also said that you can't do that with springs as you would have to change the spring.. and again i'm talking about ford leaf springs..

i had an f53 that road too ruff in the front,, 18k chassis.. and worse when pulling my trailer...
i swapped out the 18k front springs for 16k springs... still not great but better..

i had the same problem with my freightliner when I towed my trailer it actually made the front lighter on the scale and caused ruff ride and wandering...with the help from freightline I did the first mod to the lever
did the same thing as puting a lighter rated spring

Actually I did read your first post and then I read your second and third post. That is why I responded as to how the leveling valves really work.
That is why i responded that most off highway trucks in my area on severe logging roads( that all the off roader weekend warrior use with their quads side by sides dune buggies etc. use) run on air bag suspensions and have for the past ten years.

But hey I have used and maintained these things for many years but I must be wrong because you are the Expert.