Air cleaner replace

[JMOULTHROP]

I have a 1999 National Tradewinds 7371, with Cat engine. Can anyone give me some advice on changing the air filter. My air gauge says it's almost time. Thanks for any help.

[WinnieView]

Do you have an owners manuals specifically one with specs for the Cat and the replacement filter part number?

[OLYLEN]

First of all, those gauges don't work for diddly. Change filter at 2-3 years as they deteriorate over time and can screw up the air into the turbo and on to motor. There should be reference in the operators manual for #'s or on the air cleaner enclosure if it's replaceable cartridge type. On mine I replaced the original style with a cleanable filter, then I cleaned it each tear.

LEN

[Dav L]

Originally Posted by OLYLEN

First of all, those gauges don't work for diddly. Change filter at 2-3 years as they deteriorate over time and can screw up the air into the turbo and on to motor. There should be reference in the operators manual for #'s or on the air cleaner enclosure if it's replaceable cartridge type. On mine I replaced the original style with a cleanable filter, then I cleaned it each tear.

LEN

What study are you referencing?
Having worked for an OEM, and knowing that the retail price of the gauge is about $35...no way would the OEM put that on the vehicle if it "didn't work for diddly".
The purpose of that gauge is to NOT replace the air cleaner until it is needed, as inevitably, dirt gets into the system during the service. Since the OEM is responsible for the payment (warranty) of the engine, trust my experience...they wouldn't be adding the cost exposure if they didn't have to - especially when it bring up the vehicle cost (even a penny).

And yes, the dealer and then the OEM would be pushing back on warranty repair if the root cause was found to be a dirty air cleaner - no matter what the gauge said (subjective opinion based on years of experience).

To the OP: If the gauge says it's time, it's time. Buy the replacement filter and carefully remove the old. I take a shop vac and clean out the container and then down to the turbo inlet (as far as your clean vac hose can go) and then I put the new filter in. Make sure you have the container buttoned up nice so no intrusion other than the inlet.

[MSHappyCampers]

Hi ! Welcome to IRV2! We're sure glad you joined the gang!

Can't help with the question but wanted to say hello! Keep her between the ditches!

Good luck, happy trails, and God bless!

[chboone]

At the same time inspect all connections between the filter housing and Turbo. Check all rubber connectors for fit, cracks and clamps for tightness.

[vsheetz]

I change every 2-3 years. I use the gauge to advise if any issue before the time to change.

[Mr_D]

Latest from the filter manufacturers is to change the filter every two years. My filter minder still reads 0 but I changed the element anyway. $130 vs price of a rebuild so a no brainer.
As to the 0 reading, there is a bronze filter in the fitting, I can't suck or blow air through it so the filter minder is reading what it can which is nothing. Can't get the fitting off either.

[tizzyfit]

Turbocharged diesel engines need lots of CLEAN air. With no real way of determining the condition of the air cleaner for my Cummins 5.9 engine, I spend the $100 or so annually and replace it myself. The old TV commercial, "pay me now or pay me later" continues to play in my head.

[Quincy]

Originally Posted by Dav L

What study are you referencing?
Having worked for an OEM, and knowing that the retail price of the gauge is about $35...no way would the OEM put that on the vehicle if it "didn't work for diddly".
The purpose of that gauge is to NOT replace the air cleaner until it is needed, as inevitably, dirt gets into the system during the service. Since the OEM is responsible for the payment (warranty) of the engine, trust my experience...they wouldn't be adding the cost exposure if they didn't have to - especially when it bring up the vehicle cost (even a penny).

And yes, the dealer and then the OEM would be pushing back on warranty repair if the root cause was found to be a dirty air cleaner - no matter what the gauge said (subjective opinion based on years of experience).

To the OP: If the gauge says it's time, it's time. Buy the replacement filter and carefully remove the old. I take a shop vac and clean out the container and then down to the turbo inlet (as far as your clean vac hose can go) and then I put the new filter in. Make sure you have the container buttoned up nice so no intrusion other than the inlet.

I have been reading this forums posts about air filters and diesel motors for a while now. You seem like the right person to ask this question. In a gas motor, having a dirty air filter will cause diminished performance to the point that the motor will eventually just not start. Most of the time neglecting the air filter will cost money in the form of poor mileage but not engine failure. You diesel guys seem to be under the impression that an air filter change is critical to the life of the motor. Or, is the turbo the real worry with a dirty filter?

I guarantee the mechanics at the shop do not go to the extreme some MH owners do vacuuming out the duct and all when they change filters. Hell I can not even get the tech at the dealership to check the tire pressure when he changes the oil. Four times to the dealer and each time he has to come back and get the key.

[twinboat]

Diesel engines pump a lot more air thru them, then gas engines, at higher compression rates.

Because of that a hand full of dirt will dust a diesel engine.

Dusting is when the dirt wears out the compression and oil control rings in the cylinders. That causes compression leakage into the crankcase and oil being sucked into the combustion chambers while running.

Now you have a hard starting ( low compression ), oil burning ( oil ring wear ) engine that blows oil out of the crankcase breather.

There is a cost involved and maybe clearance issues, but construction equipment diesels have a secondary air filter, with indicator, inside the primary element. That is basically a safety item if the main element falls apart or is removed in and conditions, and lasts much longer then the primary.

[OLYLEN]

Well I guess I must defer to an OEM guy who has all the in factory experience. Ever hear of anything coming OEM and not working correctly? I'll study the subject and get back to you.

LEN

[Dav L]

Originally Posted by OLYLEN

Well I guess I must defer to an OEM guy who has all the in factory experience. Ever hear of anything coming OEM and not working correctly? I'll study the subject and get back to you.

LEN

Hi Oylen,
Actually, my work background wasn't in a "factory". I started in a field office supporting the dealer channel (so have expertise in what happens in a dealership). And then many more years at corporate HQ with service processes, strategy, marketing, engineering and then advanced engineering and then "retired".

But certainly spent enough time in the "factory" to have a pretty good understanding of what all happens there. And many of my friends are line workers that fill in a lot of my gaps of understanding of the every day.

Not fully understanding your question here of "Ever hear of anything coming OEM and not working correctly?"
Are you asking if I have background with a device that the OEM puts in a vehicle that doesn't work correctly? If that's the question...yes, tons of experience in that area. End to end.

But, for the time that is spent on problems, many, many more components on a vehicle are "business as usual". So, without specifics, most stuff just works as designed and the design was good. We (OEMs) spend much more time on the exceptions that don't go as planned to root cause, fix and hopefully no repeat performances.

The air monitor is a very simple device. And it is used across vehicle OEMs, and for many years. That is evidence to me that it's one of those "works according to plan" devices.

I have spent months just getting a $0.20 cent decal put on a car going through product committees, in plant labor / time studies, process sorting, etc to know that very little gets put on a vehicle without a lot of scrutiny. I believe it's way overkill and hurts innovation, but maybe saves peoples jobs from having lots of defense that due diligence was done before the "ah sh_t" happened. So many people to blame, that no one gets blamed.

That's why without being expert on the air filter sensor, my assumption is it works therefore use it.

My dealership expertise concurs that very few service garages would vacuum out the intake. It is very likely not in the OEMs labor time studies that is done with every service procedure. Which says it's overkill. But, for me, it's a simple thing to do, and it actually DID help me on one repair (my smartphone saw dirt sitting right at the opening of the turbo), but that was extenuating circumstance (major repairs). So glad I checked.

On the Diesel vs. Gas: Both hate dirt in the intake. The $ ramifications are much larger on the Diesel. But, having done lots of off road racing, it has always amazed me how much torture a motor will go through. But we like to baby our toys.

Since I hate working on a dirty vehicle, the vac (and pressure washer) is sitting there all the time anyway. 5 minutes is good piece of mind for me. 5 minutes X $120 / hr x LOTS of vehicles X LOTS of services per vehicle is a LOT of money if it was part of a time study.