at home shore power question?

[JimM68]

I don't have a dedicated RV power outlet at my sticks and bricks house.
My hoa won't allow me to park it here full time, it's only here for loading and unloading or when I'm working on it.
My house is for sale.

I plug it into a 20 amp circuit in the garage, by adapting the 50 amp rv to 30, then using a 30 amp RV Extension cord, then a 30 to 20 amp adapter plugged into the 20 amp outlet. I have never blown the houses 20 amp fuse.

If I set the EMS to 20 amps, I have no ac if the battery charger is operating.

If I leave the EMS on 30 amps, she draws about 28 amps running the battery charger and (alternately) both ac's.

But I'm browning out the RV. It's popped the AC unit breakers. and I'm melting the 30 amp to 20 amp adapters, 2 in the past month. The 20 amp outlet is bad too now.

Proposed fix one is to install a 30 amp receptacle on the 20 amp power line in the garage. Bad, I know. but how bad? That line is 12 guage wire, direct to the fuse panel. 2 20 amp circuits actually, with a shared neutral, 3 12 gauge wires.

Option 2 would mean I have to buy a (expensive) 25 foot 50 amp extension cord. I have an under utilized 50 amp GFI protected circuit for the pool equipment. Load is maybe 600 watts less than 3 amps, unless I'm vacuuming, and I can control that.
I could install a 50 amp receptacle there, and use the extention cord.

Option 1 would cost 5 bucks, option 2 200.

[Lemon Twist]

Jim

Why on earth are you setting your ems to 30 amps when you are connected to a 20 amp circuit? You cannot increase the amperage capabilities of the circuit you are connected to. You are telling your coach that it can have 30 amps when you only have 20.

Install a 30, or 50 amp outlet and provide the necessary amperage. Don't try to lift a ton with a half ton jack.

How do you know you are drawing 28 amps running the battery charger and an AC? If you are connected to a 20 amp circuit it should have tripped. If it didn't you have a real fire hazard on your hands and could burn your house down.

12 gauge wire is OK for 20 amps but not for 30. Ganging three 12 gauge wires and a single neutral????? what about the ground wires? Are there 3, or only 1? The current in a circuit follows a path to and from the load. 3 black 12 gauge wires might be ok for the path to the load but you better have the same coming back or the electricity is going to look for a different path of fry whatever is in the way.

Something sounds really wrong with your setup. It sounds down right dangerous.

If you connect to your 50 amp GFCI, put a switch in the circuit and don't try to run both your pool and rv at the same time. Never, never share a circuit like this because you can easily overload. Your pool design should match the needs of the pool. Don't expect it to be sufficient for your pool and your coach.

Be very careful with a 50 amp 220v connection. For that matter, any 220v connection. If you leave an open neutral you will really create some havoc in your coach. You can easily apply 220v to all your 120 appliances and fry all of them.

I run a 30 amp 120 volt GFCI to my coach without problems. I know that if I try to run too many things I will trip the breaker and I always set my system to match the input amperage. I turn off the circuit breakers in my coach for those things I do not use when at the house. Like the microwave. If I need cooling I run one AC. If I really need cooling I fire up the generator and run whatever I want.

Option 3 is to install a new 30 or 50 amp circuit dedicated to the coach. Might cost more than 200 but would be infinitely safer.

Good luck and be safe.

[bbeane]

Jim, your 20 A connection, with all the adapters is good for charging batterys ONLY. With a 50A coach you are just asking for trouble doing what you are doing, burning up your cords, on board equipment, or worse.

You need to have a Lic. electriction install the proper 50A outlet for your coach. Just so you know a 50A RV outlet is 220V, it will require a 2 pole 50A breaker, 50A rv outlet, 3 #6 copper wires, and a #10 ground. What you will end up with is 2 120V hot legs, 1 neutral, and a ground. Your 2 side prongs are 120V hots, top prong is neutral, bottom prong is ground. It will not be a GFI circuit, RV's don't work well on GFI's due to the varieing load they tend to put on the neutral.

[Steve N Sal]

As already mentioned, have a dedicated 50A circuit installed for the RV. Option 1 is a definite NO and again the 50A GFI circuit for the pool is not a good idea either. Cost for the installation would probably be minimal as compaired to the cost of items needing to be replaced on board your coach. I too don't have a 50A circuit at home but plug into a 20A circuit but the only thing running would be a vacuum or the refrig. If I need the A/C on I start the generator before doing any long term work in the moho.

[JimM68]

ok... thanks for the input.
trying to go in some sort of order...

I can tell the rv is drawing 28 amps because the ammeter on it's EMS panel says so.

I questioned my electrician on the 2 hots and a nuetral thing when the house was built and was told it's normal practice when running 115 branch circuits, the 2 hots (on different phases) share a single neutral. Regardless, it has nothing to do with this discussion.

Good point on the 220v 50 amp pool circuit. This circuit is protected by a VERY expensive dual pole 50 amp GFI breaker in the fusepanel. Replacing it is not an option, gfi protection is required for the pool equipment.

I'm thinking the pool power is out because of the gfi.

That leaves the garage circuit.

My previous moho (a 30 amp system) ran just fine on the garage power, and didn't have an option to limit it to 20 amps.

I'm leaning toward (temporarily -- house is for sale) installing a 30 amp receptacle on the 20 amp line in the garage, and monitoring it carefully for heat buildup and voltage delivered to the coach, when the coach is there.
My only problem seems to be those 30 to 20 amp adapter plugs overheating, and this fix would eliminate that. If the wiring gets hot, I can still set the ems to 20 amps. And I just reinstall the 20 amp receptacle when the house sells.

[Gary RVRoamer]

Indeed, most 30/20 adapters will melt down if you draw a continuous 20 amps. Strange as it may seem, the electrical code only requires them to handle 16 amps (80% of 20A) for a sustained period of time, so a constant 20A load exceeds their specs.

It appears that your 20A outlet at home is not protected with a 20A breaker or fuse, else it would have tripped/blown when you pull 28A for more than a few seconds. The solution is to stop trying to get 28 amps from a 20A circuit. Run one a/c and the charging functions and you should be good. You are moving soon anyway, so surely this cannot be a big inconvenience?

You can't combine two out of phase 20A hots on that 30A outlet as you describe. You will get major sparks if you try that. What you could do is mount a standard 50A outlet (Nema 14-50R) and use the two 20A out-of-phase hots plus a single 20A neutral and have a 240v/20A supply. That gives you a total of 40A on two hots and should be enough to run two a/cs and charging functions plus maybe a few other things. Make sure the two hots each have a 20A breaker and make sure they are out-of-phase. If in phase, the neutral will melt down due to excess current (40A on a 12 gauge wire).

[RJay]

For your purposes I agree with Gary's solution, however it's a bit unorthodox but safe for how you want to use it but it's not to code. You mentioned you are selling your house and a good house inspector will make you remove it as a condition of sale because it doesn't conform to electrical code. There are really no short cuts on this Jim other than using what you have responsibly or installing a 50 amp circuit.

[doc]

Why not just turn the A/C off until you are loaded and can move the coach? Did I miss something early on?

[ejm4]

Just to throw it out there... We just purchased a new coach and it has 50amp service. I am having an electrician add a second 100 amp panel and install an outside plug outside for under $500.

[azloafer]

Originally Posted by ejm4

Just to throw it out there... We just purchased a new coach and it has 50amp service. I am having an electrician add a second 100 amp panel and install an outside plug outside for under $500.

We did the same only we have the 50 amp line going under-ground and coming up near the sidewalk. Then we covered the box with one of those hollow fake rocks so that the home owners association doesn't get upset. When we want to plug in while loading, etc we just hookup and turn the power on. Because of labor for the buried cable it ran us $600. We think that it is worth it. Joe & Mary

[hdossett]

Originally Posted by Gary RVRoamer

.... What you could do is mount a standard 50A outlet (Nema 14-50R) and use the two 20A out-of-phase hots plus a single 20A neutral and have a 240v/20A supply. That gives you a total of 40A on two hots and should be enough to run two a/cs and charging functions plus maybe a few other things. Make sure the two hots each have a 20A breaker and make sure they are out-of-phase. If in phase, the neutral will melt down due to excess current (40A on a 12 gauge wire).

Yea, what he said! Just make sure they are on a DPDT breaker! You want both circuits to trip at the same time! (Would this interfer with other outlets on the circuit!)

I have a 50A outlet on a 30Amp DPDT breaker because of the the distance and wire size! ( I used my 'unused' electric dryer 30A circuit) My second is on a 40A DPDT breaker due to wire size! I may label the outlets as such... some day!

H

[Hillbilly2]

Your brownouts are caused by excessive voltage drop due to a high amp load on too small of wire for the distance involved, all of the adapters also introduce added resistance to the circuit. the 20 amp breaker will hold for a while with a 28 amp load, but not for a long time. The breaker is designed to tolorate a short term overload, but the greater the overload, the quicker it will trip. The only real cure is to install the correct wire size and breaker. Short term, get a heavier extension cord and keep the ems set at 20 amps, if you want to run the air for a short period of time, turn the charger breaker off, then the EMS should allow it to run on the 20 amp setting.

[wa8yxm]

Would it be possible to run a 30 amp circuit from the main service panel to the garage? Normally I would not recommend this but so long as the electrician knows it's an RV circuit, 120 volt only, and so long as you use a meter and verify it is 120 volt only, you should be good. VERIFY and label it properly (I do mean label it)


Or, since you are selling the house. and you only need more than 20 amps when actually loading and unloading (20 will charge batteries and pre-cool your fridge just fine)

Run generator to A/C.

[JimM68]

Originally Posted by doc

Why not just turn the A/C off until you are loaded and can move the coach? Did I miss something early on?

Call me spoiled... It's July in Chicago, temps been 90 to 100 for the past month. Right this moment, 9:44 pm, long after sundown, it is 86 degrees and 91% relative humidity.

The part that really bugs me is the old pace arrow (30 amp system with EMS) ran just fine with this hookup.

Running another circuit just isn't an option. Have a 200 amp service, with a 40 breaker main panel and a 20 breaker 100 amp subpanel next to it, and they are both full. And I'm selling the house anyway.

Tomorrow I'm going to fix the symptom... voltage drop = heat, and the only thing hot is that 30 to 20 adapter, so it goes bye bye.

Bus is in storage again, next scheduled camping trip is the September nascar weekend at Chicagoland speedway, doing 3 days in the infield. It will be cooler by then.