Community Forums

rayza · 07-16-2018, 11:19 AM

Just curious if I have to spend 300K or 1M to get an RV where the manufacturer actually puts thought into their design and use of space when manufacturing the RV.

I have a Newmar Bay Star (120K) and although I love it and it is well built, I am often frustrated by the lack of thought of how things are put in, laid out, etc.

A few examples
1. Every storage bay seems to have some device wired into it in a bad location. Inverter, Converter, Awning Wind Sensors, Slide Controllers, Power Outlets, Water Lines, etc.. Why cant these be centralized into a single bay? The house battery bay seems to have room, the batteries slide out. It isn't contained but I don't see any reason why it can't be (it was on my older RV). This makes it tough to fit some items into them.

2. The TV in the bedroom is on a fixed mount on a false cabinet front. It is recessed back in the wardroves a out 6". This could easily be pulled forward, and some shelves put behind the TV, and either make the TV lift up, or pop out to access the shelves. Right now it is dead space.

3. The shower stops 3" short of the sink cabinet/counter. Could easily make the shower 2" deeper which would add a lot of room!

4. Drawers/Cabinets/etc.. all seem to be a fixed size and don't take advantage of the cavity that they are in. A lot of drawers could be 1-3" deeper if not wider.

5. The furnace. Such a waste of space. Not sure if there is really a better location for it, but the cavity it is in is far bigger than the actual furnace.

I would think that when space is a premium that each floor plan would have a specific design for it that takes advantage of all of the space available to it.

deandec · 07-16-2018, 11:36 AM

I would guess you could buy a rig like mine for about $20k.

I think it has none of your issues, but the bedroom tv is only 13 inch diagonal and we do not watch it, nor have we upgraded it.

The Furnace cavities are filled making the furnace not easily accessed or repaired. And, yes, I have had to repair both 22 year old furnaces.....

However, a new model of Country Coach Magna in 2010 had MSRP prices of $770k or more depending on options. (A lot nicer than my rig which MSRP was $280k.)

And they do not build them anymore....

TJDave · 07-16-2018, 12:00 PM

The only complaint we have of our older Holiday Rambler is that we have to deploy the slides to access lower dresser drawers, and the pantry.
I guess we will continue to press a couple buttons before we load up, and save a half million!

Crasher · 07-16-2018, 12:12 PM

One of the things that attracted us to Tiffin was their efficient use of interior space in our Allegro Bus. Add to that a great dealer 40 miles away and it was a no brainer to buy it. Money doesn't always get you more efficient space. Our sons Newell does not have the interior storage that we have, but it has HUGE picture windows that give you the feeling of bringing the outside in. Two different designs to fit different objectives.

wildtoad · 07-16-2018, 12:44 PM

I’m a firm believer that those that design these things don’t use these things. They certainly aren’t the ones who have to service them or pull routine maintenance on them.

rayza · 07-16-2018, 12:58 PM

@Crasher and @wildtoad that is exactly what I mean. It is not well thought out, not an efficient use of interior space. I'd be curious to look at a Tiffin, would love to see some definitive proof about the insulation factor. I often camp in hot places (daughter is going to ASU so we are thinking of buying a spot in Phoenix) and it is super important to me.

Weird to hear that a Newell isn't like that, if I was spending 2M on a coach, it better be perfect.

rayza · 07-16-2018, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJDave

The only complaint we have of our older Holiday Rambler is that we have to deploy the slides to access lower dresser drawers, and the pantry.
I guess we will continue to press a couple buttons before we load up, and save a half million!

I have the same issue, I don't mind that. In fact it is an example of efficient use of interior space. Going right up to the limits with it. If all storage was like that it would be an issue, but I don't mind having 6 drawers I can't access without pulling the slide out a little bit.

Pinkertonk · 07-16-2018, 01:03 PM

A few years ago a Fleetwood manager brought some of their design folks to the Fleetwood Motor Home club rally in Florida. During a roundtable, some questions were asked about why this was done that way and similar. Blank stares ensued. More pointed questions with the same response or lack thereof.

Finally someone asked, "How many of you own an RV?" Not a single person raised their hand. Followup question, "How many of you have ever spent the night in one of your products?" Same answer.

Same guy turned to the Fleetwood manager and said something to the effect: "Seems to me that is your problem right there. How can you expect people to design things if they have no idea how they are used?"

Fleetwood has never brought designers to any rally since, that I'm aware of anyway. IMO, they should sit one of these things in the parking lot and make ever designer/engineer spend a week camping in the parking lot just so they could be better at their job.

saddlesore · 07-16-2018, 01:12 PM

Hmmmm..Those who design and lay out the floor plan/convenience/usability .normally DO NOT RV for any length of time.. Nor do they have to work on or maintain them.

As far as interior access....

The best I can suggest is to Always... First view the RV with ALL the slides retracted, to confirm that you will have usable access to all......before proceeding any further in the individual RV's considered..

If you Don't have the complete (or nearly so) access... Continue your search elsewhere..

as a side note .. With the slide retracted.....the only thing that is blocked and UN-accessible on our coach is the China Hutch.

Crasher · 07-16-2018, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayza

@Crasher and @wildtoad that is exactly what I mean. It is not well thought out, not an efficient use of interior space. I'd be curious to look at a Tiffin, would love to see some definitive proof about the insulation factor. I often camp in hot places (daughter is going to ASU so we are thinking of buying a spot in Phoenix) and it is super important to me.

Weird to hear that a Newell isn't like that, if I was spending 2M on a coach, it better be perfect.

I think the first coach designed by a user was the Bounder. We had a 1999 39' DP. The story is that an owner of Fleetwood designed it for his use. He used it and every space was used efficiently. It had more storage than we could fill. No frills, just a great design. I'm not sure what they are like now. For interior storage now, Tiffin takes the prize. As for insulation, Newmar is better than Tiffin. A Mountain Aire DP will heat and cool easier than any Tiffin and many other coaches as well. (My son had two MA's before the Newell) The Entegra comes close. The Newmar and Entegra will also be quieter on the road too. It would be nice if someone could put it altogether in one coach and the dealer was only 30 minutes from home.

Mudfrog · 07-16-2018, 08:24 PM

On the other hand,,, With all that extra space, it's safe to say there'd be a bunch more overloaded coaches traveling down the road.

But yes, i definitely agree that some of the things designers come up with sure have me scratching my head.

Bob1340 · 07-17-2018, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crasher

I think the first coach designed by a user was the Bounder. We had a 1999 39' DP. The story is that an owner of Fleetwood designed it for his use. He used it and every space was used efficiently. It had more storage than we could fill. No frills, just a great design. I'm not sure what they are like now. For interior storage now, Tiffin takes the prize.

I have a 2017 Bounder and have to say I like the storage as well as that of the Tiffens. I really wanted a Tiffin but finding the unit we wanted equipped like we wanted was really difficult. Found lots of Bounders that suited us. Only big issue I have with the storage is where to put the drop down bunk ladder. It almost fits under the bed, but not like it should.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudfrog

On the other hand,,, With all that extra space, it's safe to say there'd be a bunch more overloaded coaches traveling down the road.

Right on. I have to catch myself to make sure I'm not going over board with "stuff". Coming from having a Keystone TT with almost zero outside storage to this huge Bounder with cavernous bays is difficult. But, some of my favorite "stuff" I used to commonly carry in the pickup I can no longer carry. My washing machine tub fireplace is a no go. I miss it. I gave it away to my son.

Crasher · 07-17-2018, 06:35 PM

[Right on. I have to catch myself to make sure I'm not going over board with "stuff". Coming from having a Keystone TT with almost zero outside storage to this huge Bounder with cavernous bays is difficult. But, some of my favorite "stuff" I used to commonly carry in the pickup I can no longer carry. My washing machine tub fireplace is a no go. I miss it. I gave it away to my son.[/QUOTE]

When we had gasser coaches, we also had to be careful with the loading. Sometimes it was frustrating. One of the big advantages of the DP with a tag is the capacity. Mine loaded weighs in at 40,000# give or take but the GVWR is 50,660#. It also has a towing rating of another 15,000#. I could never overload it. Of course, it all comes at a price.