Back feeding power to sticks and bricks from generator

[tricotec]

Originally Posted by Dr4Film

His information is HALF correct, only the FIRST half.

Yes, you must first cut the power to the incoming line from the pole by throwing your MAIN circuit breakers.

Next, you must have a new Outlet/Receptacle installed on the outside of your 7.5 KW generator. Then you need to have a method of connecting your house power panel to this newly installed outlet. Turn off everything in your RV including the Inverter. The only thing running should be your converter which is charging the batteries. That is not easily turned off.

Obviously, you cannot power everything in your house at the same time because there is only 7500 watts of power that you have available.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

Wrong. You cannot use anywhere near the 7500 watts the generator puts out using a standard 120VAC outlet. A 15A outlet is only capable of safely delivering about 1800 watts of power. That much only if you have a cord rated for 15A continuous. (You'll need a cord with #14 gauge wires minimum.) To get more power you would have to install a standard motorhome 30A outlet both on the motorhome and in the house. Even this would only allow 3600 watts continuous.

There is a good reason why 50A motorhomes have the huge cord and plug that they do. While they are designed to input that much power to the motorhome there are multiple safeguards to prevent any power going out via the 50A cord, so it is impractical to get the full output of your motorhome generator. I would add that if you were careful and selected two 15A outlets in the motorhome on seperate breakers you could power two 15A household circuits in the home. However it is very, very dangerous to use double male "suicide" cords for this purpose. I'd NEVER do this with kids around because if someone pulls the cord out it will be live. Something as simple as tripping on the cord could cause the plug to come out of the wall and expose live conductors. I can see many possiblities for danger with kids/pets/etc.

[ahicks]

I don't know about others, but when the power goes down and I'm about to loose a freezer full of food, or I'm shivering/freezing my butt off, I could care less about "code". I'm about function with a certain degree of safety....

[charlie2]

Suspecting it was more complicated than I was being told I will continue to plug the refrigerator in the garage and the one in the house into the double outlet on the outside of the coach. I can live in the coach with the generator running until power is restored. Thanks as always the ability to tap into knowing minds is priceless.

[joemcgin]

Originally Posted by ahicks

I don't know about others, but when the power goes down and I'm about to loose a freezer full of food, or I'm shivering/freezing my butt off, I could care less about "code". I'm about function with a certain degree of safety....

As a Lineman working to restore your service outside on the power lines I can damn well tell you that we are always looking out for some idiot that doesn't care about electric codes. If you don't pull your breakers from your panel out to the pole/transformer you are energizing and backfeeding the grid with the potential to kill people.

[Dr4Film]

Originally Posted by tricotec

Wrong. You cannot use anywhere near the 7500 watts the generator puts out using a standard 120VAC outlet. A 15A outlet is only capable of safely delivering about 1800 watts of power. That much only if you have a cord rated for 15A continuous. (You'll need a cord with #14 gauge wires minimum.) To get more power you would have to install a standard motorhome 30A outlet both on the motorhome and in the house. Even this would only allow 3600 watts continuous.

There is a good reason why 50A motorhomes have the huge cord and plug that they do. While they are designed to input that much power to the motorhome there are multiple safeguards to prevent any power going out via the 50A cord, so it is impractical to get the full output of your motorhome generator. I would add that if you were careful and selected two 15A outlets in the motorhome on seperate breakers you could power two 15A household circuits in the home. However it is very, very dangerous to use double male "suicide" cords for this purpose. I'd NEVER do this with kids around because if someone pulls the cord out it will be live. Something as simple as tripping on the cord could cause the plug to come out of the wall and expose live conductors. I can see many possiblities for danger with kids/pets/etc.

I don't remember writing in my post to install a 15 or 20 amp receptacle or the use of a similar size cable.

The correct type of receptacle would be a 3 wire 40 amp which looks very similar to a 30 amp RV receptacle. A 7.5 KW generator outputs over 62.5 amps based on the PDF file I have attached.

Where you got the idea of using something smaller is specifically in your post and not mine.

A 7.5 KW generator will output plenty to keep the critical stuff running. It will NOT power the entire house.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[TQ60]

Holy €^!÷_!=^Smoke!

Double male plug...that will reduce the gene pool.

Yes you can power your house.

All it takes is an ATS properly wired.

You can add a sub panel and have generator supported devices on that sub panel ( imagine it is your rv)

Then install a standard rv size ats between the sub panel and main panel and also install a male connector for the generator connection.

30 or 50 amp twist locks work best and are common.

On your coach install female of same.

Make extension cord of same.

Sub panel with breakers lesd than 50 bucks.

ATS less than 100 bucks

Plugs about 100 bucks and about a buck a ft for your cord.

Lives you save...priceless.

Anyone with a double male cord should cut them PERIOD as that is just about the DUMBEST thing to have.

Sorry for the yelling but this idea is very very dangerous to the operators and anyone else in the area who may think the power is dead...a good way to kill someone.

[IMDSailor]

I am not an electrician, nor do I have the correct words to describe what I'm trying to say, but I do know that Throwing the main breaker on the house panel will not prevent back feeding your local power grid.
You need a proper house Txfer switch wired into your house panel. Only the circuits that you would require to sustain basic house functions would be on this panel.
Any other method of "back feeding" power to your house is dangerous and could get a linemen killed down the road from your place.
I know this is a constant and huge concern for linemen after a storm.


Sent from my iPhone using iRV2 - RV Forum

[Shadowcatche]

I replaced the main panel in our house with one that switches off mains and on to the generator. A switch is required by law in Ohio but can be a separate panel. The double male plug as advocated by ahiks is a a big problem for a number of reasons including back feeding into the mains and is some times referred to as a suicide plug.

[ahicks]

Originally Posted by joemcgin

As a Lineman working to restore your service outside on the power lines I can damn well tell you that we are always looking out for some idiot that doesn't care about electric codes. If you don't pull your breakers from your panel out to the pole/transformer you are energizing and backfeeding the grid with the potential to kill people.

Not out to hurt anyone...

If you had read/understood my first post, which made note of the process I used, you would have seen I did and highly recommend the concept of pulling the mains prior to powering the house. That done, there's is no way anything you do is going to affect anything outside your home.

My point was that for the rare occasional need to do this kind of thing, I have trouble justifying the expense in doing it to code. That's me though. If you don't have a clue regarding your motorhome, or your sticks and bricks wiring, suggest you stay completely clear of ideas like these!

I'm also hoping that you would have the common sense required to keep kids and pets clear of anything like this.... the same as you would any other lines supplying power to your home?

[Rich-n-Linda]

Originally Posted by joemcgin

As a Lineman working to restore your service outside on the power lines I can damn well tell you that we are always looking out for some idiot that doesn't care about electric codes. If you don't pull your breakers from your panel out to the pole/transformer you are energizing and backfeeding the grid with the potential to kill people.

If you did not turn off the main breaker in the house and attempted to back feed the house, you would immediately pop a circuit breaker...either in the coach or the house, whichever tripped first. By leaving the main house breaker ON, you would be attempting to power your whole neighborhood, and that's not going to work!

Yes, I understand that an extension cord with male plugs on both ends is a serious hazard and not up to code. However, as another poster said, if it is a choice between losing a lot of food or freezing your butt off, code goes put the window and practicality takes precedence.

And yes, I also know the house is fed from two different AC busses in the house. When you choose the plug that you are going to use for the house back feed, if the things you need to have on don't power up, try another plug until you get one that works. Even though you may have an 8,000 watt generator, you will only have 1,500 to 1,800 watts to work with in the house. That's all you can draw from a single outlet. But that's enough to run the fridge, a couple of lights and the TV. You can't run the A/C, the microwave or an electric hot water heater, but you have enough power,for some of the basic stuff.

I used to be in the cable TV business. For a couple of years we had very unreliable AC power at our head-end, where all the television signals originated. I would guess that I powered this entire head end (except the electric heat) via back feed more than 20 times over an 18-month period. In one case we powered it via back feed 24/7 for three days!

This procedure works fine if you are careful and understand the potential hazards.


Rich & Linda
'06 Mandalay 40E
Freightliner XC-R chassis
Cummins 400 HP ISL

[rssnape]

An additional ATS, recessed male receptacle, and an interlocked breaker for your home panel. The interlock can either be in a sub panel or in the main panel connected to the main breaker. The interconnect prevents back feeding the utility from your power source. The recessed male receptacle puts a female plug on the end of the extension that has live power from the coach. Size the breaker in the panel to protect your cord and coach.

A little planning can make it safe and convenient to give power in a power outage.

[TQ60]

Planning it correctly is safe.

In an emergency a simple extension cord or two and maybe a plug strip is all thst is needed.

[Moderator Edit]

It should have been on a battery plant with standby generator and the ability to connect another one.

Folks can do as they deem required for their needs but please consider the audience in places like this where some folks have no clear idea and see things like this as valid and may use them.

We have lots of cords and no plan...however if we needed to connect something for emergency power it is simple as starting generator and dropping a cord.

We have finished cooking dinner in the mh a few times...

If you need to do this often then spend a few bucks and do it right.

If just need to be able to do this then spend some time and build a plan.

Which cords to use and how to run cord from mh to freezer or ?

If you are like many who has the plug for the freezer behind it where you cannot grt to it then add a short cord or make sure it can move.

In the biz it is called disaster planning.

Figure out who does what when things go wrong then practice the scenario in a made up incident to be sure it works.

Just make your plans in non emergency mode to stay safe as the life you save may be yours.

[wa8yxm]

Extension cords have two ends, One a plug the other a socket

A building or a chassis has OUTLETS and INLETS

You have many Outlets in your house and RV, most are Duplex (meaning two outlets in one box) I have one octolet in this RV, but thats is a long story (8 outlets one box, well two boxes bolted to each other)

NEVER EVER USE AN OUTLET AS IN INLET.

now the proper way, assorted versions, to feed, not back feed but feed, power from the RV to the house.

Either install, or cause to be installed a proper generator transfer panel or system and a proper INLET (An inlet is a plug mounted in a chassis holder or box)

Transfer systems come in 3 basic kinds...

ONe that is easy to install, goes between the meter and the meter box. To install it you buy it, Call the power company, and they come pull the meter, slap it in behind the meter and seal it , then slap the meter on it and seal that and the job is done.. It is an Automatic Transfer Switch, Plug the OUTLET end of the generator extension cord into it, plug plug end into the outlet on the genny, turn breaker off, start genny turn breaker on and it transfers (NOTE: Do this when power has failed please, DO NOT switch big ticket or inductive loads HOT, turn them off first)

This is a good system, and very simple, but ... RV generators are usually 120vac only this is a 120/240 volt switch.. SOME loads likely should not be transfered (Cloths Dryer (Electric, gas is ok) Range, Water heater, Central A/C)

The next, which I do not care for, consists of a special metal plate that mounts on your breaker box, with this device you have two "Main" breakers in the box, ONLY ONE can be on at one time,, To transfer (manually) you first shut off the live (or dead during a power fail) breaker, slide the bracket, then on the other main breaker.

This unit is very inexpensive, however see the 120/240 comments above.

What I used:

A box with many 3-position switches this box was specifically designed as a Generator Transfer Switch, It also had a pair of watt meters but those are optional (Showed current watts usage rate) Handy if your generator is small.

When the power failed I came home from church, New Year's Eve and Frosty the snowman was sleeping on the job (He is an air-blown inflatable no power he fall Asleep) I went to basement (Windows let in light) and picked up the big heavy custom made cord

Plugged the outlet end onto the inlet and twisted (Twist lock)

Uncoiled it as I walked toward the RV.. Openedd the bay, plugged the plug end into the outlet I put in the bay and twisted (Twist lock, also a pair of TT-30s for other disasters)

inside got the Gen-turi and installed it.

Pushed the buttons in the proscribed pattern (STOP 30 second, Then tap start, wait and press & Hold to start) Verified transfer switch operation and back to basement

Click LIGHTS
Click FURNACE starts
Click Freezer starts
Click Refrigerator (upstairs) starts
Click Computer, modem, more lights
Click TV and Radio
Click More TV and Radio

Cost of all this stuff to make it happen,, about 500-1000
Warm wife: Priceless.

[Tony Lee]

Originally Posted by Rich-n-Linda

All you need to do this is an extension cord with male plugs on both ends. Plug one end into the coach and plug the other end into an outlet in your house. Make sure the main breaker to the power feed for the house is off before plugging in the line from the RV.

That's it. It has nothing to do with the transfer switch in the motorhome. I have done this several times at our sticks and bricks house.

You will have to do a little load shedding at the house, because you've only got 7500 or 8000 watts to power your whole house. That will run the lights and the TV but not much more. Don't try running the AC or the microwave!

They call these leads DEATH LEADS for a very good reason. [Moderator Edit]

Then you repeat it in another post as if it is the correct thing to do

"code goes put the window and practicality takes precedence."

What about safety and duty of care to others.