Bad work almost killed us

[max49]

My '04 Workhorse P-32 with 19.5 tires requires 175 lbs torque. We have heard any where from 85 lbs to 475 or 500 lbs of torque on this thread already. I say, ignore what you heard here about torque and find out for sure for your vehicle.
Too much torque will likely break the studs immediately or in time. Too little torque will allow them to loosen and break the stud or fall off and break the stud as the wheel falls off.

[Tony Lee]

My 19.5" require 475 ft-lbs of torque. I didn't think I'd need to tell a Les Schwab truck tire center that and trusted them to do it right.

As Max said, YOU DO - just because of the huge variation given here. personally I think a couple of the figures given seem way out of line with the others so maybe they could check their specification sheet for their exact setup.

The other problem is with very poorly trained tyre fitters. I have watched them grab the big rattle gun, slap gobs of some mysterious paste all over the studs, rattle the nuts up and then since you have told them you expect the nuts to be manually torqued up, walk over to the bench and grab the torque wrench.

Then they swing on the lever and grunt knowingly when it clicks. They repeat the same procedure on all the other nuts.

Trouble is -
#1 have they checked the specs for lube or no lube and which parts should not be lubed. Doubt it. For instance - if specs call for lube, does it specify only on the thread and not on the taper, or maybe only on the flat washer and none elsewhere.
Get this wrong and the tension on the stud (which is what matters) could be anywhere from 1/4 to 4 times what it should be. In extreme cases the studs could be stretched beyond the elastic limit anfd/or the alloy rims damage beyond repair.

#2 Do they know what the specified torque is. Do you reckon the average tyre jockey either knows or cares - or even knows that he doesn't know.

#3 is the air wrench set to a lower torque than specified. If it isn't - and that will be almost a certainty, you are being set up for broken studs.

#4 Did the manual torquing actually turn the nut at least a little bit. If it did not, then obviously the air gun did them up too tight in the first place.

#5 if they have any part of this wrong, then the only remedy is to loosen all the nuts and do them up by hand with a torque wrench at the right setting with the right amount of lubrication.

Then when you get this done properly, it would be a good idea to double check the tyre pressures because they might be all over the place just like the torques

[CJ7ole]

And then there is the question does anti-seize count a lube? I don't think many shops would use a grease or oil on the studs, but I bet a few use anti-seize compound.

OK the same retorque mantra goes for your auto or pickup, and how often does that happen? It does on mine, but I would be the exception.

If you are on this forum, we are likely preaching to the choir.

[whem2fish]

Here I helicopter jet engines anti sieze is considered wet

[Grzly03]

I am new MH owner, 1998 Overland 4141, and am having new tires put on tomorrow prior to "shakedown" cruise from San Diego area to Las Vegas. Never new so much about lug nut caution before this thread. So, surely there is a book somewhere that plots wheel material against stud material against TPI against load against recommended torque. It can't be that hard to come up with the right number. What is that reference? And then, getting it done right????? Grzly 03.

[wa8yxm]

I missed the aluminum wheel bit in my earlier post.

My daughter's first decent car had ma-alum rims, and the dealer failed to advise her to stop back for a torque re-check, when she lost one they paid for all the damages, including a brand new rim.

That was the first time I'd heard of re-torquing them too.

My ride has good old fashion STEEL rims.

[CJ7ole]

Originally Posted by Grzly03

I am new MH owner, 1998 Overland 4141, and am having new tires put on tomorrow prior to "shakedown" cruise from San Diego area to Las Vegas. Never new so much about lug nut caution before this thread. So, surely there is a book somewhere that plots wheel material against stud material against TPI against load against recommended torque. It can't be that hard to come up with the right number. What is that reference? And then, getting it done right????? Grzly 03.

Check your owners manual for lug nut torque. It's all based on your chassis configuration.

[Francesca]

Originally Posted by Grzly03

I am new MH owner, 1998 Overland 4141, and am having new tires put on tomorrow prior to "shakedown" cruise from San Diego area to Las Vegas. Never new so much about lug nut caution before this thread. So, surely there is a book somewhere that plots wheel material against stud material against TPI against load against recommended torque. It can't be that hard to come up with the right number. What is that reference? And then, getting it done right????? Grzly 03.

Torque specs are specific to the bolt itself: size, grade, and material are the main parameters. The application itself can matter in some specific professional/industrial applications, but for most of us the aforementioned parameters are enough.

Lots of tables are available for easy reference...

Here's the one we use for torque specs: Portland Bolt: Torque Chart.

And here's one of many keys available to determine bolt type/material: Bolt grade/type/material

[TAZ]

MRROB1, contact the shop first. I had the front on a dually not tightend and got around the block and knew something was amiss. They tightened it so I could use the truck , but I was not confident the rim was not bent. They replaced the rim and installed two new front tires two weeks later. Some shops do the right thing and I still take my trucks to them for their honesty.

Good luck!

[slickest1]

Originally Posted by wa8yxm

I missed the aluminum wheel bit in my earlier post.

My daughter's first decent car had ma-alum rims, and the dealer failed to advise her to stop back for a torque re-check, when she lost one they paid for all the damages, including a brand new rim.

That was the first time I'd heard of re-torquing them too.

My ride has good old fashion STEEL rims.

Even steel wheels should be rechecked. I have always re checked mine whether it has been large truck or personal car/pickup or RV. Most times they are ok, sometimes not. Not alot different then checking air pressure.

Most newer RV trailers have a sticker near the wheels saying to check wheel torque,
.

[rvrepairnut]

all wheels especially steel wheels installed by a knowledgeable person do not need retorgue.A Diesel pusher with 22.5 Aluminum wheels do not need retorque when installed in the correct manor and correct torque lbs and pattern

the disclaimer you see is because no one knows for sure if the wheel was installed correctly and torqued correctly at time of installation.99% of the time it is and is a insurance safe guard against shoddy work. its not really a required procedure as if its a 2 or 3 step install process

[Tony Lee]

Originally Posted by rvrepairnut

all wheels especially steel wheels installed by a knowledgeable person do not need retorgue.A Diesel pusher with 22.5 Aluminum wheels do not need retorque when installed in the correct manor and correct torque lbs and pattern

the disclaimer you see is because no one knows for sure if the wheel was installed correctly and torqued correctly at time of installation.99% of the time it is and is a insurance safe guard against shoddy work. its not really a required procedure as if its a 2 or 3 step install process

Amazing! And you claim to be in the RV industry. We don't have insurance for the 99%, we have it for the 1%. Same with crossing the road - we look before croosing because there is a good chance we will luck out if we don't.
ALL wheels need checking at intervals and especially after they have been removed and refitted. Same goes for tyre pressure and bearing temperature.


Grzly 03, there is more to it than just looking up tables of torque vs stud size. HOW the bolt is used can be even more important that the size and grade of the bolt itself.

As already stated, lube or antiseize or not can lead to huge differences in the holding power vs torque - to the extent that the rims are either not clamped against the hub at all, or the studs are close to breaking under the static load let alone the dynamic load..

Then there are stud-piloted rims and hub-piloted rims and the engineering behind these is quite different.

Conical-face nuts and flat nuts with thick washers.

And then there are alloy rims and steel rims and as you can imagine, the requirements for these two materials can be vastly different.

The only constant is don't trust the tyre fitter to know the settings because they just won't. Can't even, because there are just so many different vehicles and they are tyre fitters, not automotive engineers.

It is up to you to know the torque settings and the conditions under which that setting should be applied.
Also you are the only one who knows the correct tyre pressures and if you care about your safety, you will make sure the salesman writes it down in big print in the correct language in the middle of the work order.

And then you watch them and make sure they do it right.

Anyone who thinks there is no need to check should read the first post once again.

About two hour later I stopped at a a rest area for to let the kids take a break.While walking around I noticed my right rear wheelcap
was missing. After taking a closer look I noticed that 5 of my 8 lugs were broking and the other 3 were loose.I called the Good Sam roadside service,
In about two hours later I was back on the road. Could anyone tell if its anything legally that I can do about the work that was done on my unit?

[mrrob1]

Thanks to everyone who responed. I finally got through to the shop that did the work. The owner talked with the mechanic that did the work and the mechanic said that he didn't remember if he had torque the studs. He's no longer working with the tire service. The owner agreed to cover all expences.

[Midniteoyl]

Originally Posted by demoon

[B]My manual for my F-53 with 19.5" tires reads as follows. They make it sound like torque is determined by bolt size. Also sounds like they do not recommend lubing the threads.

Bolt size Wheel lug nut torque*
lb.ft. N•m
M14 x 1.5 150 lb.ft.
* Torque specifications are for nut and bolt threads free of dirt and
rust. Use only Ford recommended replacement fasteners.
On all two-piece flat wheel nuts,
apply one drop of motor oil between
the flat washer and the nut. Do not
apply motor oil to the wheel nut
threads or the wheel stud threads.
When a wheel is installed, always remove any corrosion, dirt or
foreign materials present on the mounting surfaces of the wheel
or the surface of the front disc brake hub and rotor that contacts the
wheel. Installing wheels without correct metal-to-metal contact at the
wheel mounting surfaces can cause the wheel nuts to loosen and the
wheel to come off while the vehicle is in motion, resulting in loss of
control.

My 19.5's require 450-500 lbft..