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Old 04-20-2015, 02:25 AM   #1
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Baffling: House Power Completely Dead

Hi Everyone,

I have a 2004 Gulfstream Friendship and recently went to start the coach in storage and the the house batteries were obviously bad after trying to charge them for about an hour with the generator running. But Freedom 458 inverter continued to blink wildly and then I noticed that all power went out. My thoughts were that maybe the house battery fuse had blown (300 amp). I also checked the Onan generator breaker and it was ok and had not tripped.

So, a few days later, I replaced the house batteries (4 golf cart batteries) and also replaced the house battery fuse. I've had this same sort of thing happen about 6 years ago when the house batteries go bad after sitting a while. But this time, after replacing these items, my entire coach house power is completely dead. The coach has a battery disconnect for both the engine and the house batteries and I am not seeing any response whatsoever when I turn on the house batteries.

I haven't tested power to the inverter, but I am 99% sure it isn't getting any power because no lights comes on.

I am baffled on what it could possibly be? If anyone knows of a list of possible leads for diagnosis, I would greatly appreciate your assistance.

Thank you!
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:30 AM   #2
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You may have tripped the inverter. On my Magnum there's a reset on the back I have to feel for. It's only happened once, but it killed all power to the coach.
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:08 AM   #3
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Are you sure the battery cables are connected correctly? Is there the proper voltage on both sides of the 300 amp fuse?

I suspect maybe a relay might be bad, especially if you have 12+ volts at the fuse.

The Freedom inverter has a safety feature that will automatically shut down if it senses a extreme high or low voltage. Like Ramets said, I believe there is a reset button on the inverter.

Make sure you keep us posted as to what you find out, OK?
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:16 AM   #4
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Any chance it is the battery disconnect switch? If operated by a relay maybe it automatically kicks off once power is disconnected.
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Old 04-20-2015, 11:53 AM   #5
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Thanks for all of your ideas. Pretty sure the batteries are are connected good. All the positive cables were put back onto the positive side and the negative are easy with just one cable connecting each post. I hit the reset button to the inverter with no success. Again, I don't think the inverter is getting any power whatsoever.

After doing some searching online, I wonder if its the Battery Isolator Relay as some may suggest. I am going back to the coach storage and will take a photo and research further. I suppose I need to test the voltage coming to and from this relay?
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Old 04-20-2015, 12:12 PM   #6
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It could be a relay. Do you have any 12 volts lights inside the coach that work? On my coach they are the ones mounted on the ceiling. Do any of the "cigarette lighter" sockets work? I'm just trying to narrow down if you are having problems with the 12 volt circuits or 120 volt circuits or both. Are you connected to an outside power source by any chance?

Double check the wiring comparing the connections to the pictures you took before removing the cables. I know of another owner who missed a wire connection and that cable was actually sitting on the bottom of the battery tray under the battery. Apparently when he was slipping the battery into place it snagged the cable and pulled it to the bottom.

Note of caution. There very well be 120 volts in and around the inverter so be real careful.

Keep us posted
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexhansen View Post
Thanks for all of your ideas. Pretty sure the batteries are are connected good. All the positive cables were put back onto the positive side and the negative are easy with just one cable connecting each post. I hit the reset button to the inverter with no success. Again, I don't think the inverter is getting any power whatsoever.

After doing some searching online, I wonder if its the Battery Isolator Relay as some may suggest. I am going back to the coach storage and will take a photo and research further. I suppose I need to test the voltage coming to and from this relay?
this sounds like it might be wrong. All of the positive cables are put back on the positive side. 6 volt batteries do not hook up that way. You have two pairs of batteries. One battery for each pair will have the positive terminal on that battery hooked to the negative terminal on the other battery. If you have everything hooked up with positive terminals to the positive posts and negative terminals hooked to the negative post you have 6 volts going out. Most stuff will not work with 6 volts.
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Old 04-20-2015, 09:55 PM   #8
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Whats the voltage at the batteries and the inverter?
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Old 04-22-2015, 03:16 AM   #9
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Ok, I went to the coach and took a photo of the relay (see attached). This is the part I found online that matches:

586-105111 - White Rodgers 586-105111 - Solenoid, SPNO, 12 VDC Isolated Coil, Normally Open Continuous Contact Rating 200 Amps, Inrush 600 Amps

See the corrosion on the threads with the bolts? I think this may be the culprit. The symptoms prior to all house power failing was that I had very WEAK power as the electric steps on the coach wouldn't even close completely. This may be due the high resistance caused by the rust on this relay. Note that this failure of power occurred WELL BEFORE I ever replaced the batteries and the 200 amp fuse. Now it looks like fuse replacement was unnecessary.

Does this make sense? Tempting to try to clean off the relay, but it may be too far gone. Maybe just replace it and be done with it?

Thanks to all for your help!
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Old 04-22-2015, 06:55 AM   #10
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The solenoid in the picture is broken, the battery post mounting is cracked and twisted. ( right post )

This could have happened while moving the cables around or being partial cracked, at an earlier time. In any case, it needs to be replaced.
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Old 04-22-2015, 11:57 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by lexhansen View Post
All the positive cables were put back onto the positive side and the negative are easy with just one cable connecting each post.

This description does not sound correct for 4 Six Volt batteries.

If connected like the below diagram, then you are ok.


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Old 04-22-2015, 12:34 PM   #12
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check to see that you are on the correct relay? On my coach the 200 amp relay is the momentary start to jump the batteries together? not saying that that relay is good, like has been said make sure your making 12 volts , not 6, and, oh, you have no shore power, so, with a volt meter see if you have 12 volts both studs? do you have two smaller relays in that bay? I have 2 smaller relays that are coach and chassis power and that big one is the jump start?
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Old 04-22-2015, 04:42 PM   #13
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I just got off the phone with Gulfstream support and she did say that there are 2 ways to cable the batteries. In series (your diagram), provides the highest voltage and in parallel gives you the higher battery life.

She did not think my above diagnosis was the most likely and she sent me a wiring diagram of my coach. She did say that the most common places to start looking are the transfer switch and fuses back on the side of the rear bed. I am shooting in the dark at this point, so I need to buy a volt meter and go start testing. I'll keep you posted on what I find.

Thanks again to all for your input.
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File Type: pdf 2004 12 volt feed.pdf (90.2 KB, 39 views)
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Old 04-22-2015, 05:00 PM   #14
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Parallel definitely gives the longest usage but unfortunately using 6 volt batteries only 1/2 of the voltage needed (6VDC) actually gets to the 12 volt devices.

If you have 6 volt batteries the only way it will ever work is to wire it as described in the diagram supplied by deandec. The Gulfstream diagram also shows them wired in series.
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