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Old 09-18-2012, 03:41 PM   #29
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To clarify the last paragraph in our previous post, the current Cummins cool-down idle of 3 to 5 minutes suggestion is "after a full load operation." So as somebody previously stated, if you are coming down an off-ramp or otherwise under normal driving conditions, it is acceptable to shut the engine off immediately.

Our transit agency stressed that transit buses are rarely, if ever, under full load operation as even if loaded to its GVWR, it still actually isn't "full load" the way diesels in an off-road industrial situation might be. I would think that motorhomes aren't under full-load operation too often either.

The transit agency we worked for had a combination of Cummins and CAT engines.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:28 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butte64 View Post
George,
Are you planning on going to Camp Freightliner to get all the details of diesel and chassis O&M?

Jerry
Yeah, Jerry, I would go if close by. Dallas is 300 miles from me so I would not be inclined to go there. I am going to talk to the local Freightliner dealer and see what they say. I have not got to it yet...but will.

I have a friend that I ride motorcycles with and eat breakfast with each Wed. He has a 42' and I have visited with him about diesels in general and will ask specifics tomorrow. He said he will help me anytime and when/if I get a DP will explain things to me ...he is on his third and does a lot of RVing.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:29 PM   #31
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Thanks, Amanda, Great post. Good info.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:01 PM   #32
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My Cat C7 engine manual says to let it idle at least 3 minutes after running it at highway speeds or drive it at low speeds for a short period before shutting it down. I'm not sure I would listen to what a "public transit agency" has to say about it...if they blow an engine, who cares...? They just buy another one...it's not their money...!
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:07 PM   #33
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Here is Cummins statement on idling of their engines direct from their published data:

Quote:
Idling at Startup or Shutdown

At Startup
– Idling for engine warm-up is not required
– Once oil pressure is seen … put motorhome in motion
– Don’t operate at full road speed until engine temp reaches approximately 150 deg.F.

At Shutdown … Idle (3-5 min) required only after full throttle/high power operation.

Idling is not necessary after normal operation such as exiting highway, driving into rest stop, campground, etc.
So if I'm climbing the grapevine and I stop immediately then I'm going to let it cool down, otherwise just idling down an off ramp is enough.
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:18 AM   #34
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Here is Cummins statement on idling of their engines direct from their published data:



So if I'm climbing the grapevine and I stop immediately then I'm going to let it cool down, otherwise just idling down an off ramp is enough.
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Originally Posted by stvscharfe View Post
My Cat C7 engine manual says to let it idle at least 3 minutes after running it at highway speeds or drive it at low speeds for a short period before shutting it down. I'm not sure I would listen to what a "public transit agency" has to say about it...if they blow an engine, who cares...? They just buy another one...it's not their money...!

Well, I'm not going to start an argument on this idling issue. Yes, a transit agency may not be as concerned about blowing an engine as we are as single motorhome owners but I guess my point was that the trend and the paradigm has shifted. I think if you read my post where I cited the reasons, you can see why it is no longer necessary to let an engine idle for a long periods of time to let the turbo cool.

I only mentioned the transit agency because of what was cited. They were under pressure to factor in a lot of things. They want to reduce fuel costs, reduce maintenance costs, and also the added benefit of reducing emissions and less noise pollution. And since we worked for them, we'd be in trouble for letting the engine idle even for a minute or two after parking the coach so we were sort of indoctrinated to the new paradigm. Sure, maybe they don't care if they blow an engine here and there but they are accountable to the taxpayers to reduce costs. Even you are paying for the costs of mismanaged maintenance that a transit agency might incur as most large city's transit agencies are partially federally funded by tax dollars.

As I stated, not only transit agencies are moving toward less idling but also places like UPS and FedEX amongst other trucking companies, governmental agencies, and fleet owners who now tell their drivers to shut down a diesel engine immediately. It's now unnecessary to let a diesel engine idle the way it was common to see truckers do decades ago.

Bottom line, you can go ahead and idle your engine for minutes on end if it makes you feel better and makes you believe that you'll save your turbo from having to be repaired more often that ours will. It's not a big deal in the scheme of things.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:38 AM   #35
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Amanda,

Excellent response. Thanks for providing good information with facts and details. Some people cling to old habits and their way of doing things no matter what may have changed. I prefer to follow rational thinking and do what makes sense in combination with what the manual says. So no excessive idling with my Cummins.

Jerry
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:41 PM   #36
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Amanda,

Excellent response. Thanks for providing good information with facts and details. Some people cling to old habits and their way of doing things no matter what may have changed. I prefer to follow rational thinking and do what makes sense in combination with what the manual says. So no excessive idling with my Cummins.

Jerry

Thanks for your comments, Jerry. I didn't mean to sound testy in my prior post. I appreciate the fact that you did take the time to go back and review our other previous posts. The idle "paradigm shift" shouldn't be a big deal here amongst motorhome owners. I can understand it making a pronounced difference to fleet owners, transit agencies, and truckers. If it makes a motorhome owner feel better to think that he is going to preserve his engine and turbo to idle three minutes, then it's not a big deal at all. It won't cost a lot in fuel to keep it idling longer than necessary, it won't contribute a bit to the pollution problem, and if it gives the motorhome owner peace of mind to idle longer than necessary, then who am I to say it isn't right.

Just to make one additional comment and then I'll shut up on this issue as I don't want to slant this thread away from the OP's other questions ...when talking with one of the maintenance managers at the transit agency we worked for, he told us that we'd be surprised at how many miles/hours a city bus engine can last without being "blown" considering the abuse they take. Remember, a city transit bus isn't being used like the typical OTR truck, intercity bus, or motorhome that sees most of its use on the highway. A city transit bus is put through a lot of strains and abuse that highway vehicles aren't. Varying loads in short periods of time and a lot of starting and stopping (including eninge shut down and start-up), and having a variety of different drivers are just a sample of what these vehicles go through. We were told that very few instances of burned out turbos or turbo problems in general are happening. He told us that if they did start having such problems with turbos that they'd re-examine their policy of having drivers shut the engine down immediately upon parking. Again, UPS and Fedex have such policies too. You'll notice those drivers shutting their diesel engines down immediately when coming to a stop to deliver a package. Many drivers who work for such employers (including those at the agency we worked for) will be disciplined if they idle their diesel engines unnecessarily.
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:07 PM   #37
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I too, do not care to get into a discussion on whether our public services really have the taxpayers best interests in mind...all I know is that my Caterpillar owners manual says: "Prior to shutdown, engine should be idled for 3 to 5 minutes after full throttle or climbing a steep hill." I believe that I will take the engine manufacturers recommendation.
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:24 PM   #38
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I too, do not care to get into a discussion on whether our public services really have the taxpayers best interests in mind...all I know is that my Caterpillar owners manual says: "Prior to shutdown, engine should be idled for 3 to 5 minutes after full throttle or climbing a steep hill." I believe that I will take the engine manufacturers recommendation.
And I never said that you shouldn't. We all know what it says in our CAT manual as we have the same engine as you do. All I'm saying is how many times are you going to be in the situation where you'll be shutting your engine down after "full throttle or climbing a steep hill?" As I said in a previous post, if you were climbing a steep mountain pass pulling a heavy trailer, and you immediately pulled into a rest stop at the top of that pass, then yes, maybe you'd want to let it idle for awhile before shutting it down. Ordinarily, however, it is not necessary to let it idle for any more than ten seconds, if that. You do what you want and we will do what we want. It will all be okay in the end and won't cost either of us in undue maintenance expenses.

Okay, now I'm through.
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:50 PM   #39
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First off what you are cooling down is the turbo. The cool down period is something that you might want to consult your manual with also. My unit is a Cat and it says to idle for 2 minutes after cruising before shutdown.

I have the VSpec system that lets me look at the actual temp of the intercooler which helps, but I still try to follow the recommended cool down time.
Del, it takes us longer than that to get out and walk around the coach to make sure it's parked right. One of the benefits of living so long.
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