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Old 03-25-2015, 11:13 PM   #85
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According to Cummins the ISX 15 is 15L or 912 CI. The three stage retarder will slow you VERY quickly if switched all the way on. And, when running is a very strong engine. Found that I usually didn't need the full acceleration ramp nor full throttle even with the Odyssey on behind. The Magna weighs 48,000#'s empty so figure 50,000#'s the way we're loaded plus the 4,500#'s for the Ody.
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Old 03-25-2015, 11:44 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
$29,000 to fix the ISX with Cummins picking up only $10,000 of it for an admitted design flaw in the 650 HP ones. New head and valves have been produced and will be used in the rebuild of ours. Called our broker and will close out an IRA to pay for it. Not totally happy with Cummins right now but the Magna is a beautiful piece of work. Next is new tires and batteries for another $10,000 or so, but that will have to wait a while!

Glad to see this moving forward, and getting you closer to the next chapter - where you put smiles by the miles on the coach with each other.

I admit I have not got caught up on all of the threads associated to this problem. But I read a few where you mentioned you were given a copy, or saw the numbers, of an oil analysis with some high numbers on it - after purchase(?) (More of a question then a statement, as going from memory after reading a few posts over the lasts few days!). This is after Premier assured you that 'all was good', or, 'all was sound' on the coach. (Again, a statement using my words,maybe not your words exactly.).

Yes, you signed a contract that said 'as is'. But, Premier has a solid reputation, and word of mouth on this reputation should mean more to them then just this one sale. Us RV'er's are a funny breed, with long memories, and great networking amongst each other. So, if Premier had any info that indicated any concerns, or more importantly - should have been a 'head's up caution'. They as 'Professional's', should have been looking out as much for you as a buyer, as any Consignment Seller, or themselves if it was their coach being sold.

Where are they in the participation of the correction of a coach that was sold to you as a 'Non professional', as being in good condition.

I'm not talking about he 'legal' side of the contracts, as I'm pretty sure they're covered and could just say 'Sorry', and move on. I'm talking about them doing the right thing, and assisting in 'setting things right'.

IMO, Premier, if they had indications that there could be a problem (EVEN IF THE MISSED THIS IN AN HONEST OVERSIGHT.), should step in and do the right thing. And if it was on a Consignment Sale agreement, they should look to the seller too, to be involved.

Just an opinion, and doubt much will ever come out of this. But it sure sounds to me like , again "If!?", they had earlier documentation of a potential serious problem - they should assist.

Either way, a fine coach, and hopefully a long term fine engine after the repair with the improve parts. So most important of all, is you and the DW going out an enjoying this new set of tire'd shoes!

Best,
Smitty

Note: I've heard noting but good things about Premier. And one sell does not make a company. But one sour sell, can sure cloud the waters for those wishing to work with a company on a sell, or buy, in the future. Reputation is work a few $K to protect.

Note2: And Cummins. If you knew you had a bad design, and an engine that should do several hundred thousand miles without major problems. Regardless of legal warranties, 1/3 of the cost to correct YOUR DESIGN PROBLEM, is not the Cummins reputation I would be proud of... Sure, we RV'er's maybe a small market. But, we're pretty vocal, and all try to watch each others backs. You have the old Dodge truck cummins, and with a new 5.0 V8 trying to get into smaller vehicles, but with higher volumes of sales - the last thing you should be doing is sticking an 'Internal Cummin's Design Flaw to existing owners. Even out of warranty, you should cover your mistakes.

Note3: All IMO...

Note4: Rant off. (Just get ticked when I read and hear about 'Design problems' - becoming the problem of 'The Owner's'...
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Old 03-26-2015, 07:01 PM   #87
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There was a previous discussion here High end / low end rv

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Don't rule out Winnebago. They make coaches in many price ranges and seem to not have many unhappy customers. They are the largest RV manufacturer in the world.
We have the MH in my signature. Friends have a 2004 Newmar Essex. Both of them have remarked several times our coach has several features they wish theirs did. Both coaches are built on Spartan chassis, so it's the coach part that impressed them.
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Old 03-26-2015, 11:01 PM   #88
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Don't rule out Winnebago/Itasca

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There was a previous discussion here High end / low end rv


We have the MH in my signature. Friends have a 2004 Newmar Essex. Both of them have remarked several times our coach has several features they wish theirs did. Both coaches are built on Spartan chassis, so it's the coach part that impressed them.
We were all set to order a Tiffin when it was suggested we check out Itasca/Winnebago because of their full wall slide, floor plans and quality we were looking for. Well they are not like Winnebagos we remember. We were so impressed with the quality and the floor plan in the Itasca Meridian 36M; it was exactly what we wanted! IMHO, it beat out the Tiffin and we found one already built exactly like we wanted and we bought it . . . Didn't have to wait plus got a great price.
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Old 03-26-2015, 11:05 PM   #89
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Porscheville - If you expect Porsche component level quality in a new motorhome in the range of 250,000 - $400,000 I will be very surprised if you will be able to find it. Only a few makers put the components of that level in their products. Old car nut mentioned most of them.

You should be very careful of bling vs long term durable components. Last week I camped next to a close RV friend of mine who bought a brand new class A a year ago that is one of the best selling in the USA and by one of the makers on your short list. His imitation leather upholstery is pealing back on all of the wear areas on all of his coach furniture. He is shocked. It looked very good when he bought the coach, but now after 12,000 miles needs to all be replaced. On the other hand our coaches 12 1/2 year old thick leather upholstery with 122,000 miles on it is in beautiful condition with zero separating seams, rips, or tears. One of his other comments a week ago was, "Why does your 12 1/2 years old paint look better than my 1 years old paint?" He stores is motor home inside and mine lives outside. The reason for that is simple. Our coach came with Yacht paint made in Holland with a thick clear coat over it. His did not.

My point, do careful research. When I shopped for a used coach 5 1/2 years ago I bought the RVCG information which does a good job of rating coach performance and quality.

Old car nut left out two well made coaches (in my opinion) American Coach and Travel Supreme. American Coach is still in business and Travel Supreme was bought out by Entegra.

Country Coach will begin showing a new coach at their factory in Junction City Oregon this June. I don't know the price level.

After you get your information from the RVCG or your own careful research you will likely make some changes to some of your short list.

Beware of bling that will not last.

B Bob, I'll just have to assume that the "peeling leather" coach was a Thor. I have eliminated them anyway based on the fact that they sell more than anyone else and are a public company. And nobody speaks with pride about them like you hear Tiffin and Entegra owners doing. The reason for this thread was to see if I heard about shoddy workmanship issues with certain brands. Unfortunately, many don't seem to want to name names. Perhaps you'd share which brand uses yacht paint made in Holland with thick clear coat.

I don't make any comparisons between coaches and my car though. My car is made for one purpose....to be a street-legal race car. It has a manual transmission, nothing resembling chrome and doesn't even come with a spare tire but it turns the daily drive into a trip to Dinseyland. (Although the paint is like a sheet of glass after 9 years.)

I'll check out the RVCG info. Thanks for the tip.
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Old 03-26-2015, 11:56 PM   #90
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Old 03-27-2015, 11:12 AM   #91
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$29,000 to fix the ISX with Cummins picking up only $10,000 of it for an admitted design flaw in the 650 HP ones. New head and valves have been produced and will be used in the rebuild of ours. Called our broker and will close out an IRA to pay for it. Not totally happy with Cummins right now but the Magna is a beautiful piece of work. Next is new tires and batteries for another $10,000 or so, but that will have to wait a while!
While perusing a truckers website, I found a thread about the ISX engine. One of the posts said the ISX in HDT's is a 600 HP output, the 650HP is only put in Motorhomes. I don't know if this is any help or not.
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Old 03-27-2015, 11:35 AM   #92
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Davidki, good question .... I'm not looking at full time. I'd just like to travel and see a lot of North America before I get too old. When I was young, I camped a lot....now, I have no interest in the "roughing it" part. I like driving. I like seeing sights. And I'm looking forward to traveling to bowl games, tail gating, taking the grand kids on short trips, etc....when I retire and don't have a career that demands so much of my time.

The coach I'm currently lusting after most is the Tiffin Allegro Bus 45UP. It is an unusual floor plan in that the full bath is forward of the bedroom and there is a half bath in the back. We have an adult child that will travel with us and that floor plan will keep him out of our bedroom.
PorscheVille:

I am the guy that asked an opinion of transmission retarder vs. engine retarder and we enjoyed several pages of its discussion, but did not really comment on the best coach to meet you specific needs.

It seems to me that you have some requirement traveling with an third adult in the coach, which others, including me, do not have to consider.

In the above post, you commented on a floor plan that would meet your needs when at a campground.

Have you looked at the floor plan on coaches with the slides retracted and traveling down the road?

For you passenger:
  • How comfortable is seating when traveling more than an hour or so?
  • What is visibility like out the windows, front and side?
  • What is the corridor like to get access to the fridge, sink and washroom?
  • How is communication and sight line between the three of you?
  • Would you son like to have access to music, videos, or games to pass the time while traveling?
These are just a few things that I thought of. No doubt you have many more items to consider.

I have rarely seen a manufacturer drawing with the slides retracted, and in some photos, the retracted slides look like caves and would not be comfortable for passenger to ride in for any extended period.

Good luck in the search for your ideal motor home. Once you have decided on a coach, let us know how you make out.

By the way, and for the record, my motor home has both a jake brake and a transmission brake, no slide, and is now celebrating its 30th birthday this year. It will likely be my only motor home for the rest of my rving days.
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Old 03-27-2015, 12:21 PM   #93
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Porscheville - We have a Country Coach and it has the very long lasting two stage marine paint (made in holland) with a very thick clear coat. For complete disclosure though I would like to add that we had to have Country Coach sand and re-apply the clear coat to the upper bend where the walls curve into the roof last summer. This area is normally susceptible to peeling as gravity thins the material when it is applied slightly here. But after getting that re done our paint looks splendid. Our coach does have a few minor "war wound scratches" I do not fix as they remind me of mistakes that I made in piloting her at some point in the past. They do not detract from her appearance.

As to the peel back of the upholstery. It was not poor workmanship, but poor material selection that is causing the premature failure. The material is not leather, but some kind of imitation leather I believe. I have only visually inspected it. It is not a Thor. I will tell you privately that name of the maker. Just PM me. I have only personally seen this one instance of defective material and do not have expertise beyond this instance. So I do not want people to infer that all coaches of this brand are suspect.

On the other hand, when you are looking at motorhomes you should look carefully at the way it is made to make sure the quality is up to your standards. The last Porsche I drove had very high component quality. I don't love rear motored sports cars, but without a doubt Porsche 911's have very high quality paint, seats, metal, and so on. German electronics on the other hand is sometimes problematical. In my opinion, there are only a couple of motorhomes made in the last 20 years that have that level of quality. And in some cases there are significant differences in the models within a brand. For example a Porsche 911 vs 914, 924, 944, 928 and so on. Country Coach has built a few models with some engineering I don't like. Rear radiators being one of them.

The previous poster that mentioned making sure you can live with the floorplan of any coach with the slides in has a very good point. One of our very close motor home friends who we traveled with the last couple of weeks just bought a 2008 coach from a reputable maker (Holiday Rambler) with two slides on the passenger side and a full wall slide on the drivers side. Their coach is very comfortable and spacious when the slides are all out. When they are driving and the slides are in I really don't like their coach. It is like a cave that narrows as you look back. BTW their rig was not particularly expensive but had well made real leather upholstery. Our rig only has two drivers side slides. We love the floor plan. We could have bought a four slide coach for the same price we paid for ours in a lower Country Coach model. But our coaches floor plan works for us. It is a bit longer to somewhat make up for two slides. If we had people over constantly to our coach opposing front slides would be better. We don't so what we have works very well. When we travel with the slides in you hardly notice the difference. So the whole coach is usable slides in our out.
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Old 03-31-2015, 09:48 AM   #94
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One major thing to keep in mind with your list, is warranty. Entegra has a two year standard warranty while the other manufacturers have a one year. They can do this because of the quality of construction. We have had Itaasca (winnebago) and Monaco MH's before our Anthem. Both were great coaches that we loved at that time in our life. The Anthem is our dream coach and we are beyond thrilled. Customer Service has been awesome. We haven't had any problems yet (knock on wood) but questions that they are always available to answer. For us this was The one! You have to look at floorplans and prices and decide what works for you. That is the most important thing.
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Old 03-31-2015, 11:14 AM   #95
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The previous poster that mentioned making sure you can live with the floorplan of any coach with the slides in has a very good point. One of our very close motor home friends who we traveled with the last couple of weeks just bought a 2008 coach from a reputable maker (Holiday Rambler) with two slides on the passenger side and a full wall slide on the drivers side. Their coach is very comfortable and spacious when the slides are all out. When they are driving and the slides are in I really don't like their coach. It is like a cave that narrows as you look back. BTW their rig was not particularly expensive but had well made real leather upholstery. Our rig only has two drivers side slides. We love the floor plan. We could have bought a four slide coach for the same price we paid for ours in a lower Country Coach model. But our coaches floor plan works for us. It is a bit longer to somewhat make up for two slides. If we had people over constantly to our coach opposing front slides would be better. We don't so what we have works very well. When we travel with the slides in you hardly notice the difference. So the whole coach is usable slides in our out.

When we ordered our Dutch Star, livability with slides in was a big thing for us. We've been stuck for a couple days with slide in and wanted to make sure we could still do all that we need.

With slides closed we can walk by each other in the living room, without turning. We can walk by even if the other person is sitting on the loveseat with their footrest up.

In the kitchen we have to turn sideways to pass each other. The bed touches, so you have to crawl over it to get in the rear bath/walk in closet.

That makes it very open when the slides are out.

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Old 04-01-2015, 08:13 PM   #96
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My wife and I were in the same situation you are in now. We looked and researched for over 1 1/2 years even going to rv shows. The best thing to do is to go to as many dealers as possible making notes as to what you like and dislike. Some features may be a necessity item whereas others may just be nice to have. Things we looked at were quality of the coach being purchased, reliability and service available, basement storage, reputation of the brand, along with the different floorplans we liked. Purchasing a used unit can save you many dollars with the availability of purchasing an extended warranty which is an excellent idea if purchasing a used unit. We found a used Tiffin Allegro Open Road 32BA which has sufficient room for us which also saved us over $45k over a new model. Tiffin has a great service reputation from their dealers. Just be happy with what you choose. Obtain different mh catalogs to compare and contrast the different features. Then you will be able to make an intelligent decision.
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Old 04-01-2015, 08:23 PM   #97
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Glad to see this moving forward, and getting you closer to the next chapter - where you put smiles by the miles on the coach with each other.

I admit I have not got caught up on all of the threads associated to this problem. But I read a few where you mentioned you were given a copy, or saw the numbers, of an oil analysis with some high numbers on it - after purchase(?) (More of a question then a statement, as going from memory after reading a few posts over the lasts few days!). This is after Premier assured you that 'all was good', or, 'all was sound' on the coach. (Again, a statement using my words,maybe not your words exactly.).

Yes, you signed a contract that said 'as is'. But, Premier has a solid reputation, and word of mouth on this reputation should mean more to them then just this one sale. Us RV'er's are a funny breed, with long memories, and great networking amongst each other. So, if Premier had any info that indicated any concerns, or more importantly - should have been a 'head's up caution'. They as 'Professional's', should have been looking out as much for you as a buyer, as any Consignment Seller, or themselves if it was their coach being sold.

Where are they in the participation of the correction of a coach that was sold to you as a 'Non professional', as being in good condition.

I'm not talking about he 'legal' side of the contracts, as I'm pretty sure they're covered and could just say 'Sorry', and move on. I'm talking about them doing the right thing, and assisting in 'setting things right'.

IMO, Premier, if they had indications that there could be a problem (EVEN IF THE MISSED THIS IN AN HONEST OVERSIGHT.), should step in and do the right thing. And if it was on a Consignment Sale agreement, they should look to the seller too, to be involved.

Just an opinion, and doubt much will ever come out of this. But it sure sounds to me like , again "If!?", they had earlier documentation of a potential serious problem - they should assist.

Either way, a fine coach, and hopefully a long term fine engine after the repair with the improve parts. So most important of all, is you and the DW going out an enjoying this new set of tire'd shoes!

Best,
Smitty

Note: I've heard noting but good things about Premier. And one sell does not make a company. But one sour sell, can sure cloud the waters for those wishing to work with a company on a sell, or buy, in the future. Reputation is work a few $K to protect.

Note2: And Cummins. If you knew you had a bad design, and an engine that should do several hundred thousand miles without major problems. Regardless of legal warranties, 1/3 of the cost to correct YOUR DESIGN PROBLEM, is not the Cummins reputation I would be proud of... Sure, we RV'er's maybe a small market. But, we're pretty vocal, and all try to watch each others backs. You have the old Dodge truck cummins, and with a new 5.0 V8 trying to get into smaller vehicles, but with higher volumes of sales - the last thing you should be doing is sticking an 'Internal Cummin's Design Flaw to existing owners. Even out of warranty, you should cover your mistakes.

Note3: All IMO...

Note4: Rant off. (Just get ticked when I read and hear about 'Design problems' - becoming the problem of 'The Owner's'...
Smitty: The rig is at Cummins right now, hope to be done on April 10th so we miss the whole week of spring break.
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Old 05-31-2015, 08:04 AM   #98
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3 years from retirement and I've been looking online at various Class A coaches and getting serious about it. Lately though, I've read some forum horror stories and thought I'd join and start getting some thoughts from owners about coach brands they think highly of and about buying new vs. used.

Coaches I'm thinking about are Tiffin Allegro Bus, Entregra Anthem, Thor Tuscany. (I read on an Entegra forum about a leaking roof on a new Cornerstone and now I'm nervous.) I have three years, want to learn as much as I can and listen to folks who know and are not trying to sell me a coach.

All opinions on what you'd buy are welcome.
I purchased my first motor home last year. I researched for six months and chose the Allegro Bus 37 foot. I purchased a three year old Bus with 17k miles and saved fifty percent and still feel like it is a new unit. One year later the unit has no issues. All systems worked perfectly. I will buy new tires and replace the batteries but that is my choice as the batteries and tires are fine.
I won't take chances with used tires or four year old batteries that can go anytime.

I like all your choices except Thor. Nothing but trouble from RV people we have met.

We could not be happier with our Allegro Bus. We are not full time travelers and use it to travel not sit. We have a 450 deisel with more power than expected. We also had a surprise of getting ten MPG. Not bad for traveling through the mountains.

Good luck is followed by doing research and finding a unit with service records like I did. The previous owner replaced many systems when new. I received it with all work completed.
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