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Old 04-27-2015, 03:02 AM   #57
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I think you may be fooling yourself to think that an insurance company won't try to get out of paying if your out of classification, especially if the claim is a big one such as serious injury or death. I don't know how many meanings there are to the word "valid" but if your cited as a result of an accident for not being properly licensed you may have some serious trouble. If your riding a motorcycle you need a valid m/c endorsement, not one for your car or your semi truck. It all works the same way. As far as the length goes I think if the mfg calls it 40, you're probably ok, but all bets are off if there's big money to be paid.
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:30 AM   #58
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Do they define a motorhome as a "House Car" that other aspects of Car come into play at a traffic stop. If they defined it as a "Motor Home", then other rules come into play when you enter some ones home? Just thinking....
That's another reason I didn't choose to retire in California....one of many.
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:59 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by UsualSuspect View Post
My last license listed an Air Brake Endorsement, new one does not. I called the Commercial Section, and the answer is, California no longer has an Endorsement for Air Brakes, however, if you fail to take the test for an A or B, it will be listed as "Restricted to vehicles without air brakes". The State still has a Passenger Endorsement, Doubles, and HazMat.
That is true for a commercial license, but not so for the non-commercial license. When I took the written tests at the DMV last week, they explicitly told me not to take the air brake test, even though the computer listed it, as it was intended for the commercial license only.
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Old 04-27-2015, 04:49 PM   #60
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How about this... Any salesman that takes units for their company on test drives must have a Commercial Class B or Commercial Class A. Reason? They are driving motorhomes for business (commercial) purposes. The exemption only applies to private use of motorhomes for non-commercial use.
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Old 04-27-2015, 09:01 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by SteveLevin View Post
Durango,
In the application for the Progressive policy, it states

"I understand that all operators shall have a valid driver's license and that operators under the age of 16 and those convicted of insurance fraud are unacceptable."

Steve
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, since I do not buy into the theory that lack of a non-commercial B will allow an insurance company to bail out of paying a claim. My policy is not worded as so, and it's through AAA.

Also, the operative word in yours is "valid" - I would take that to mean current, or not expired - while you're interpreting it to mean applicable to the vehicle being driven. Note that a LEO will not note on a ticket that your license is "invalid" should it not be for a class B if that's what you should have...

I suppose that anyone not sure should query their insurance company, not a forum of experts such as us! (LOL) I will say that another forum had someone who queried an attorney and he said the same thing - an insurance company cannot use that as a reason for not paying a claim. I have good attorneys for that reason - they protect my interests when others want to take advantage of them...
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Old 04-27-2015, 09:06 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durango382 View Post
I think it's important to reiterate one poster's thought - your insurance company once having issued you a policy cannot assign fault to you simply because you don't have the right license for the length vehicle they insured you as a driver for, as long as you told the truth when you gave them whatever info they asked for. But, they can and do research the license you indicate you possess, and they can and do research the vehicle you indicate you want insured. When they CAN refuse to cover an event is if you have violated any of the fine print conditions that are part of your policy - I've never seen one yet that says you're not covered in the event you are in a 43 foot RV with a Class C license. But there are other exclusions that any driver should be aware of - read your policy!
I expect there will be a clause somewhere that requires the insured to notify the insurer of any changes to licensing, vehicle, health, etc.

If we think we are smarter than they are we are living life foolishly. I am sure they have seen most if not all scams, evasions and outright lies.
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Old 04-27-2015, 09:11 PM   #63
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The answer to this is too simple.

Any person simply peovides vehicle vin and dl license to selling agent.

They assume selling agent doing their job...but making a statement to insure selling agent knows the class of license and requesting they confirm coverage and rate and have it clear in policy is all that is needed regarding insurance.

I could assume they have ways to check it but asking them to confirm and stating in policy you are covered settles it.

Or they indicate not coveted until...
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Old 04-27-2015, 09:14 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Durango382 View Post
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, since I do not buy into the theory that lack of a non-commercial B will allow an insurance company to bail out of paying a claim. My policy is not worded as so, and it's through AAA.

Also, the operative word in yours is "valid" - I would take that to mean current, or not expired - while you're interpreting it to mean applicable to the vehicle being driven. Note that a LEO will not note on a ticket that your license is "invalid" should it not be for a class B if that's what you should have...

I suppose that anyone not sure should query their insurance company, not a forum of experts such as us! (LOL) I will say that another forum had someone who queried an attorney and he said the same thing - an insurance company cannot use that as a reason for not paying a claim. I have good attorneys for that reason - they protect my interests when others want to take advantage of them...
I spoke with an insurance lawyer. She works for an insurance company. She said that insurance will always cover the harmless party but may not cover the at fault party.

She did not cover the exculusions, but I suggest driving with an inadequate license may be one of the exclusions. It is really easy to prove based on physical evidence. I suppose one could claim they did not know about the requirements but as they say "ignorance of the law is no excuse". About the only way you would be able to get by would be to have a person with an adequate license on board and claim you were in training.
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:52 PM   #65
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If you are ever in an accident and you don't have the license you should have, you are at fault.
Incorrect. The class of license possessed might get you a ticket, but it has NO correlation to who is determined to be at fault for the collision in California.

And to the poster who stated that an air brake endorsement is required for those 40' motor-homes, that is also incorrect.

And I'm comfortable with a 40'-6" motor-home being considered a forty-footer here.

All that notwithstanding....we're heading to South Dakota to more sane fulltime RV requirements.

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Old 04-28-2015, 09:02 AM   #66
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Just wanted to add to this as I'm a retired California LEO. CHP Commercial Enforcement will view your rig in three ways to see if the driver qualifies for a non-commercial class B. They are:

1) Vehicle over 40 feet.
2) Vehicle more than two axles and over 6000 lbs.
3) Vehicle over 26,000 pounds

There are a couple of exceptions to the non-commercial B license. The obvious ones, Commercial A or B, or the following which is obscured unless you dig a bit. Read the Cal DMV paste below for non-commercial A, which everyone assumes just covers trailers.


A Noncommercial Class A license is required if you tow:

a travel trailer weighing over 10,000 lbs. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) which is not used for hire.
a fifth-wheel travel trailer weighting over 15,000 lbs. GVWR which is not used for hire.
a livestock trailer that is not for hire, weight over 10,000 lbs. GVWR but not over 15,000 lbs. GVWR, and is operated within 150 miles of the farm by a farmer to transport livestock.

A Noncommercial Class B license and endorsement is required if you operate:

A housecar over 40 feet but not over 45 feet.

Exemptions: Holders of a commercial Class A or B license, a noncommercial Class A license, and all fire fighter license classes.
I'll throw my $.02 in this discussion. The CA DMV CDL or Drivers Handbooks do not require a CDL or Non-commercial license for a Motorhome/housecar that weighs over 26,000#'s.

From CDL Handbook:

CDL Exceptions

Exceptions to the CDL requirements are:
  • Persons exempted under CHSC§25163.
  • Persons operating a vehicle in an emergency situation at the direction of a peace officer.
  • Drivers who tow a fifth-wheel travel trailer over 15,000 pounds GVWR or a trailer coach over 10,000 pounds GVWR, when the towing is not for compensation. Drivers must have a noncommercial Class A license.
  • Drivers of housecars over 40 feet but not over 45 feet, with endorsement.
  • Non-civilian military personnel operating military vehicles.
  • Implement of husbandry operators who are not required to have a driver license.
  • Vanpools

Now if they required a Class B non-commercial for 26,000#'s or more in a housecar, 40' or under, it would be stated in the exemptions for CDL as a required Class B non-commercial license. There are many motorhomes under 40' that have a GVWR exceeding 26,001#'s.

Regards, Hamshog
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Old 04-28-2015, 09:17 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durango382 View Post
Note that a LEO will not note on a ticket that your license is "invalid" should it not be for a class B if that's what you should have...
Actually, you will be cited for not possessing a valid license.

The California Vehicle Code terminology for this is such:

Quote:
12500. (a) A person may not drive a motor vehicle upon a highway,
unless the person then holds a valid driver's license issued under
this code, except those persons who are expressly exempted under this
code.
and then specific to motorhomes (or "house cars" as defined in the CVC) you will be cited for a violation of the following section with the following terminology:

Quote:
(b) (1) Except as provided under paragraph (2), no person may
operate a house car unless that person has in his or her possession a
valid driver's license of the appropriate class and an endorsement
thereto issued by the department to permit operation of the house
car.
and as the final note of caution in California law, according the CVC Appendix B List of violations, violation of that portion of the vehicle code is charged as a misdemeanor and not an infraction. So then you need to make sure, if found guilty, that your policy doesn't exclude coverage when the vehicle is used in conjunction with a crime (again, another exclusion that exists in my Progressive policy, but could certainly vary for others).

The only definitive answer, of course, is a statement from one's insurance company that they will cover you whilst operating a vehicle you aren't licensed to drive.

One other thing, the length is defined as

Quote:
(F) A house car over 40 feet in length, excluding safety devices
and safety bumpers.
so that's why motorhomes approaching 41' in length are still fall within the 40' limitation. Ladders, bumpers, etc are not counted.

Steve
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Old 05-04-2015, 11:53 PM   #68
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In CA when they state "with endorsement" that means you have to take the written test for Class A or B noncommercial but not the driving test or the medical self endorsement.
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Old 05-05-2015, 12:49 AM   #69
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In CA when they state "with endorsement" that means you have to take the written test for Class A or B noncommercial but not the driving test or the medical self endorsement.
Class A or Class B is not an endorsement. The law predates the days when you used to have an endorsement for air brakes, thus the endorsement wording. You have to take the Class A or B written, as well as a pretrip inspection, and behind the wheel driving test as it is a different Class of Driver's License. Be happy they are not Commercial Licenses.
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Old 05-05-2015, 01:18 AM   #70
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Class A or Class B is not an endorsement. The law predates the days when you used to have an endorsement for air brakes, thus the endorsement wording. You have to take the Class A or B written, as well as a pretrip inspection, and behind the wheel driving test as it is a different Class of Driver's License. Be happy they are not Commercial Licenses.
To drive a 10,001 to 15,000 5er you need an Endorcement to your class C. It's the same written you take for the class A noncommerical. So there still are endorsements. Over 15,000 you need the class A noncommerical.
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