Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Class A Motorhome Discussions
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-23-2012, 09:26 PM   #15
Registered User


 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by gauto5150
How does the engine come out of a DP, the bottom?
I read a really long really cool thread on another site years ago.

They used a forklift to pull an 6v92 out the back of an old bluebird, replaced it with a cummins!
Where there's a will, there's a way!
__________________

__________________
JimM68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-23-2012, 10:13 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
dieselbeaver's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 112
Blog Entries: 1
Hi All,

Just a couple of things. First for Mr D, DCA is recommended for all modern diesel regardless of liner or parent bore. The cavitation erosion happens regardless - I don't know of any engine manufacturer that doesn't recommend it.

Second, the removal of an engine from a diesel pusher is dependent on the manufacturer. Some have the engine/trans on a skid that slides out once everything is disconnected and drained and it may take an experienced tech 8-10 hrs to get the engine on the ground. That's a best case with side rad and a large rear hatch. Most rear rads will take much more time to remove the radiator and charge air cooler, then tag and disconnect everything all the while working thru the bad hatch if you are lucky and aren't working thru just a hatch in the closet. And then to finally jack up the coach alot!!! Followed by setting the engine/trans on a pallet and supporting it just to lower it with the forklift we all keep around.

Now, factoring labor at dealership rates of $125, I can see the bill reaching 60+hrs by the time a reman engine is prepped and installed. Now factor in a repower and with the fab work that will be required and the wiring/plumbing you can be well over 100hrs. Now depending on the shop/area it can be more or less, but either way the number of shops willing to do the job is probably quite small. I work on trucks every day and pushers when its called for and I can tell you that unless it's a bus conversion or a Prevost type they aren't built to work on so you can take a couple hour job on a truck and make it a day long endeavor.

In the end you just need to shop the job around and get some idea of the local costs. And investigate the ramifications of a repower as far as necessary changes like mounts/plumbing/electrical because that's going to cost.

Best of luck. It does sound like a special coach.

Allen
__________________

__________________
1998 Signature 42' M11 450hp - -pulling 25" enclosed trailer with SCU sandcar inside
Lovely Wife, 2 kids, 3 dogs, 2 cats
Diesel Mechanic to the stars
dieselbeaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2012, 06:32 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigd9 View Post
...
Years ago when my Cummins engine blew, the dealer wanted $23,000 to rebuild it. ...
That's consistent with what I've heard; a few years ago I was looking at a used DP with a brand new ISB 300. The owner was trying to get some money so he could sell it to pay the mechanic's lien on it of around $26000 (bill for engine replacement) and have a bit left over. In the end, I think the garage won a court order to keep the mh and I never got the chance to buy it (and the owner ended up getting nothing out of it). I imagine an ISC could be quite a bit more than that.

As far as putting in a 450, as others have mentioned, I suspect that this would be a huge undertaking. From what I can tell, it already has 10K lbs towing and you won't get more towing capacity by adding a larger engine.

One more thing is that from what I can tell, the engine on those was a CAT 7.2, not Cummins ISC (although maybe the CAT was standard but you could get the Cummins as an option).
__________________
michelb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2012, 10:33 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
OLYLEN's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Olympia, Wa
Posts: 2,337
Most likely ISL, Trans and Regear if not replace rearend is out of price range. With a quick look I found an ISC 360hp with 6000 miles on it for $12500 plus core of near $2000. Now add 20 to 30 hours R/R at $125 an hour and you won't have much change left from a $20000 bill. If you can get the MH CHEAP, it might just be worth it.

LEN
__________________
2004 Clss C 31' Winnebgo
OLYLEN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2012, 01:21 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Clayobx's Avatar


 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Willow Lakes RV & Golf Resort, FL
Posts: 3,116
I agree with the post recommending a rebuilt Having experienced purchasing new vs rebuilt I made a huge costly mistake. Going larger is a open invitation to draing your pocketbook! My 450 ISL has the Allison 4000 FYI. Good luck I would be very apprehensive as their most certainly be other problems.
__________________
Clayobx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2012, 02:08 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Mcdonough, Ga.
Posts: 4,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by gauto5150 View Post
How does the engine come out of a DP, the bottom?
The last one I saw changed slid out the back.
__________________
1998 Pace Arrow 35 ft. F53 Ford V10 2012 Honda Civic toad
32 years mechanic at Delta Air Lines 15 year motorhome service manager. 3 popups....2 travel trailers....5 motorhomes....loved them all.
ga traveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2012, 02:40 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Mr_D's Avatar
 
Solo Rvers Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 28,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselbeaver View Post
Hi All,

Just a couple of things. First for Mr D, DCA is recommended for all modern diesel regardless of liner or parent bore. The cavitation erosion happens regardless - I don't know of any engine manufacturer that doesn't recommend it.
Sorry but here's what Cummins has to say about the A and B series engines in the new specification in Jan. 2012, here
Quote:
"The A and B Series engines normally do not require Extender/SCA because they do not normally experience cylinder bore/'liner cavitation corrosion."
(Highlighting per the linked document)
Still looking for the CAT info specific to the 3126/C-7. Does anyone have a specific reference/link?
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA, SKP
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '14 CR-V
Mr_D is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2012, 04:00 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 249
K,

Since you are a newbie to this field, trust me, you don't have the experience to wrestle this gator to a happy ending. You don't want to do this.

Dave
__________________
2014 American Eagle 45N
Spartan Liberty Chassis
dfunde01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2012, 06:27 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Rich and Cork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,052
Seems to me that if you spend something like $45-50,000 to fix this motorhome that you will get for almost nothing and it will be worth $175,000 when you are done, this is a no brainer. Buy it, fix it and have fun.
__________________
2001 34' Alpine Coach
2008 Jeep Rubicon or 2012 Ford F150 4x4 Lariat towds
or a couple of different trailers
Retired in Apple Valley, California
Rich and Cork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2012, 06:29 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Kathryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfunde01 View Post
K, ... trust me, you don't have the experience to wrestle this gator to a happy ending... Dave
LOL! Great way to phrase it!

This guy is a friend of a friend ... that type of thing ... Apparently the guys teenage son took it out with friends and he didn't go into detail, (still pretty angry!!!) but they ended up having to be towed home and the guys own long term mechanic said total engine replacement needed. The money doesn't mean anything to him, he just wants it gone.

The only reason I would even consider this is because it is so unique. To have that skydeck and still have a fairly roomy interior is just so over the top! (pun intended!) Nice floorplan, excellent kitchen. The interior is in great shape, and with a little upgrading and redecorating, it could be outstanding ... even the oak staircase is attractive and well placed. You only lose about the space of a sofa. And since I am a single RVer, don't really need tons of space.

Exterior and all sytems in good physical and mechanical shape. Has maintenance records and all good. I would only get this and put that much effort into it if it were for me to keep the next 10 years or so, but I can pick it up for about $20K, so it looks like I could put about $100K into it and still sell it for a profit if I wanted!

LOVE the skydeck ... certainly a one-of-a-kind coach! SERIOUSLY considering! but listening to all of your cautions and suggestions. This is, unfortunately, a rear radiator, so I know that adds to the labor costs. To bad I couldn't switch THAT to the side when the engine is replaced!!!

Any more biggies to watch for and consider?

Thx all!

Kathryn
__________________
Kathryn . . . still lurking and learning!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Wise men still seek Him..."
Kathryn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2012, 06:31 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Kathryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich and Cork View Post
Seems to me that if you spend something like $45-50,000 to fix this motorhome that you will get for almost nothing and it will be worth $175,000 when you are done, this is a no brainer. Buy it, fix it and have fun.
LOL! I was writing the above when you posted this.

Kathryn
__________________
Kathryn . . . still lurking and learning!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Wise men still seek Him..."
Kathryn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2012, 06:59 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
JBDISCOVERY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 455
If the block is sound, it is possible to do an inframe overhaul. Don't believe trying to upsize the engine is a choice that can be done without spending lots of dollars. My company overhauled a number of diesel engines yearly. Cheaper than buying a new replacement engine. A good shop should be able to examine the coach/engine that you are looking at and give you a reasonable estimate of the work and cost to repair the engine.
Use care, you may well gain a good coach.
Regards,
JB
__________________
JBDISCOVERY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 06:49 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Debary Fl
Posts: 464
At this point no one knows why the engine needs to be "replaced" unless the cylinder head, and oil pan have been removed for inspection, lots of things can cause the engine not to run. A GOOD diesel mechanic can correct a lot of things without having to completely remove the engine fron the M/H. However in this day and time most shops don't have the time or the space to get into that kind of repair, thats why they want to replace the engine. Of course once you buy it and go into the engine you are pertty much comitted then. If you can buy it for the 20K(or so?), it might be a deal, but as others have said it ain't going to be cheap or quick to fix it. JMHO but I would not count on the kind of resale you are talking about if you where to resell the coach after it was repaired. Lots of newer used diesels out there in the 175K range these days.
__________________
Bruce Linda and Zoey
1999 ForeTravel U295
012 orange Jeep Wrangler
bbeane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 07:10 AM   #28
Senior Member
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathryn View Post
...

Exterior and all sytems in good physical and mechanical shape. Has maintenance records and all good. I would only get this and put that much effort into it if it were for me to keep the next 10 years or so, but I can pick it up for about $20K, so it looks like I could put about $100K into it and still sell it for a profit if I wanted!

LOVE the skydeck ... certainly a one-of-a-kind coach! SERIOUSLY considering! but listening to all of your cautions and suggestions. This is, unfortunately, a rear radiator, so I know that adds to the labor costs. To bad I couldn't switch THAT to the side when the engine is replaced!!!

...
If you can get it for $20k, I think it's worth it but it's certainly not the deal you seem to think it is. You have to budget that it could cost you $20k-30k to get it back on the road. Furthermore, this coach is certainly not worth $175k (it wasn't much more than this brand new after discount) - IMO, it might be worth $70-80k but honestly, I don't know if the market value is even $60k (Do not put $100k into this mh!!!). If you like the floorplan then it's a great opportunity but realistically, I don't know that there are that many people that would want it (I honestly would not) - this is a great floorplan for someone who likes to take their mh to the racetrack, other than that, I don't know who would want it). Like many other 'unique' floorplans (e.g. Newmar mid-engines, CC Verandas, etc), a lot of buyers just aren't looking for that and they are very hard to sell (e.g. the NADA on the Newmar mid-engines is around $125k-150k (depends on year and model) but I don't think they sell for more than $100k - last time I saw one on CrankyApe (and that was a few years ago), it didn't even reach $80k. There's been one listed on eBay several times since the winter - I don't think it ever got more than $80k either (didn't met reserve) even though the low NADA on that one is close to $140k (I would actually love to buy that one but I don't have the $80k for it and I certainly wouldn't spend $140k+)).

Good luck,
Mike
__________________

__________________
michelb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.