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Kathryn · 07-23-2012, 04:51 PM

OK - here's a tricky one! Just had someone talk to me about a unique coach, EXCELLENT condition (saw pics - can inspect) on a Freightliner chassis, 360 Cummins, Allison 3000, good mechanicals BUT - the guy is ready to trash it, could get it for practically scrap metal price! BECAUSE ... engine blown, must be replaced, he is just through with it.

Can this be done? Anyone know what kind of $$ involved? And if it must be pulled and replaced, can it be upgraded to a Cummins 450 in the process? (for greater towing capacity) 2004 Airstream, value about $175,000 +/- if fixed.

Triker56 · 07-23-2012, 05:05 PM

With a 450, probably a Allison 4000 would be needed.
Low retail for a 2004 39' with 2 slides is only $82,420 fixed.

Kathryn · 07-23-2012, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triker56

With a 450, probably a Allison 4000 would be needed.
Low retail for a 2004 39' with 2 slides is only $82,420 fixed.

I said this was unique - it is an Airstream Skydeck - that's the only reason I would even consider it. One of only 28 made. Value $150-$250K

As far as the mechanical space, is there room for the bigger motor? or is it not actually "bigger" physically?

Kathryn

My bad ... just checked NADA - had a 330 engine and they show retail $88-$107K. Hmmm ... the few available are going waaaay higher - but does affect cost issues.

Kathryn

laj · 07-23-2012, 05:12 PM

You can do anything if you want to throw enough money at it. For 450, you would also have to change tranny to 4000 possibly drivelines and maybe rear ends. If engine is completely blown you may also have core charge. Would have one on tranny exchange not trading like for like. I would guess parts and labor would be close to 40,000 to 45,000 by the time it's ready to leave the shop. Just a rough semi educated guess tho.

laj · 07-23-2012, 05:31 PM

Going larger engine will probably need radiator and cac. Misc connections so better add another 10k or so.

Kathryn · 07-23-2012, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laj

You can do anything if you want to throw enough money at it. For 450, you would also have to change tranny to 4000 possibly drivelines and maybe rear ends. If engine is completely blown you may also have core charge. Would have one on tranny exchange not trading like for like. I would guess parts and labor would be close to 40,000 to 45,000 by the time it's ready to leave the shop. Just a rough semi educated guess tho.

Thx laj - understand it's a rough guess but that is what I need to hear!

Kathryn

bluepill · 07-23-2012, 05:38 PM

Engine rebuild or replacement with the same size motor would probably be econmical. Changing to a larger engine is a can of worms you don't want to open. I am a retired auto/truck mechanic with 45 years of experience, fwiw.

Bigd9 · 07-23-2012, 05:47 PM

I guess a lot depends on what is "blown". Another possibility is to rebuild the existing engine and if possible tune it to produce more HP. Check out some shops that deal with diesels and get a few estimates.

Years ago when my Cummins engine blew, the dealer wanted $23,000 to rebuild it. At least that is how much he wanted me to pay him before he even looked at the engine. Lucky for me, the engine was covered by a long warranty and Cummins authorized a rebuild. They sleeved 2 out of 6 cylinders, replaced all parts that could wear and returned to me a relatively new engine. This wasn't a smooth process, but we made it through it without lawyers getting involved.

Mr_D · 07-23-2012, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laj

You can do anything if you want to throw enough money at it. For 450, you would also have to change tranny to 4000 possibly drivelines and maybe rear ends. If engine is completely blown you may also have core charge. Would have one on tranny exchange not trading like for like. I would guess parts and labor would be close to 40,000 to 45,000 by the time it's ready to leave the shop. Just a rough semi educated guess tho.

I think the ISL 450 now uses the 3000 MH trans.

Mr_D · 07-23-2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigd9

I guess a lot depends on what is "blown". Another possibility is to rebuild the existing engine and if possible tune it to produce more HP. Check out some shops that deal with diesels and get a few estimates.

Years ago when my Cummins engine blew, the dealer wanted $23,000 to rebuild it. At least that is how much he wanted me to pay him before he even looked at the engine. Lucky for me, the engine was covered by a long warranty and Cummins authorized a rebuild. They sleeved 2 out of 6 cylinders, replaced all parts that could wear and returned to me a relatively new engine. This wasn't a smooth process, but we made it through it without lawyers getting involved.

The ISB and CAT 3126 are "native bore" engines, meaning the pistons ride in the block casting with no liner.
The ISC and larger Cummins and the C-9 and larger CATS have wet liners and are easily changed (relative to replacing the whole block).
That's why some engines require SCA's (engines with liners) and some don't (native bore).

laj · 07-23-2012, 06:06 PM

Mr. D you could be right. Not sure of torque.
That would determine which trans.

Dutch Star David · 07-23-2012, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triker56

With a 450, probably a Allison 4000 would be needed.
Low retail for a 2004 39' with 2 slides is only $82,420 fixed.

Transmission depends on torque, not HP. Lots of newer MH's have 450 HP but still use Allison 3000's.

gauto5150 · 07-23-2012, 06:16 PM

How does the engine come out of a DP, the bottom?

gauto5150 · 07-23-2012, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kathryn

OK - here's a tricky one! Just had someone talk to me about a unique coach, EXCELLENT condition (saw pics - can inspect) on a Freightliner chassis, 360 Cummins, Allison 3000, good mechanicals BUT - the guy is ready to trash it, could get it for practically scrap metal price! BECAUSE ... engine blown, must be replaced, he is just through with it.

Can this be done? Anyone know what kind of $$ involved? And if it must be pulled and replaced, can it be upgraded to a Cummins 450 in the process? (for greater towing capacity) 2004 Airstream, value about $175,000 +/- if fixed.

Considering the HUGE costs, it's a toss-up.
BUT you need to consider that it doesn't run or drive now so who knows what else is wrong, brakes, cooling system, etc. You could end up with putting a ton of money into it and never get it "right".