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Old 06-02-2011, 08:19 PM   #29
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Why was it you didn't want the police to come inside ? They are welcome in my home or my rv as long as they wipe their feet on the mat before they come in
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Old 06-03-2011, 05:22 AM   #30
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Why was it you didn't want the police to come inside ? They are welcome in my home or my rv as long as they wipe their feet on the mat before they come in
I think you missed the point. It's not if you have something to hide (or not), it's a question of your right to say no. I have nothing to hide but, I'm going to say no because it's my property and my right. If after that the officer feels the need to search he/she can go from there...
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:14 AM   #31
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I would believe that "probable cause" would come into play the same as any other vehicle or residense.
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:03 AM   #32
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Why was it you didn't want the police to come inside ? They are welcome in my home or my rv as long as they wipe their feet on the mat before they come in
Well, I can give you MY answer... NOTE this is MY answer and may or may not have anything to do with someone else's answer.

I have the right to be secure from unreasonable search and seizure, what is that 4th amendment? backed by the 14th,

As A result, if an officer asks for permission to search, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE.. I want him to jump through the proper hoops,, I'll gladly serve him fresh brewed coffee (Made while he watches) while he waits for the warrant to arrive, But I want that warrant before he searches.

And as I said, I have nothing to hide. the only "Weapons" are kinves (The kind you expect to fine in a kitchen) and my walking stick.
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:06 AM   #33
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I understand the right to refuse entry, I just can't see the point in waisting your time their time and putting them in a bad mood in a situation where you are going to loose . If a police officer asks to come in and you refuse they have 2 choices walk away or get the authority to come in .Without statistics I am going to say 90% of the time they are coming in because you said no. Personally I have better things to do than hassle and be hasseled by the police so I would say come on in I want to get this over with and move on. thats just me
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:17 AM   #34
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Well, I can give you MY answer... NOTE this is MY answer and may or may not have anything to do with someone else's answer.

I have the right to be secure from unreasonable search and seizure, what is that 4th amendment? backed by the 14th,

As A result, if an officer asks for permission to search, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE.. I want him to jump through the proper hoops,, I'll gladly serve him fresh brewed coffee (Made while he watches) while he waits for the warrant to arrive, But I want that warrant before he searches.

And as I said, I have nothing to hide. the only "Weapons" are kinves (The kind you expect to fine in a kitchen) and my walking stick.
After they get the warrent:

I have a question:
Have you ever seen a motorhome or car after the police did a search?
I have; believe me you don't want to go there.
And they don't put it back together.
Be nice, let them look if you have nothing to hide.
Yes I know we have rights;---- but----after that officer has jumped through hoops, he will be in no mood to be nice.
In the Texas border I have seen motorhomes and cars tore down to the frames; if this is what you want; then go for it.
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:19 AM   #35
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Bob, it is a priciple thing.. I'm going to make them spend the time.. I'm not in any hurry to get anywhere so I can wait... But I'm going to ask them to make the search "Warrnated"

The idea is to get them to convince a judge that they need to search.. Unless, of course, the search falls under one of the "Exception" cases (Like pursuant to impound).

But mostly it's a principle of the thing thing.
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:48 AM   #36
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Bob, it is a priciple thing.. I'm going to make them spend the time.. I'm not in any hurry to get anywhere so I can wait... But I'm going to ask them to make the search "Warrnated"

The idea is to get them to convince a judge that they need to search.. Unless, of course, the search falls under one of the "Exception" cases (Like pursuant to impound).

But mostly it's a principle of the thing thing.
Agreed!

Acquiescing our constitutional rights are a slippery slope, and we have given up far too many already, in the name of "Catching the Bad Guys!"
Has anyone here (besides me) actually read the "Patriot Act" ?
Link:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=107_cong_public_laws&docid=fub l056.107.pdf

I believe it was Ben Franklin (Remember him? he's on the 100 bill) who said,
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither."
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Old 06-03-2011, 02:50 PM   #37
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Agreed!

Acquiescing our constitutional rights are a slippery slope, and we have given up far too many already, in the name of "Catching the Bad Guys!"
Has anyone here (besides me) actually read the "Patriot Act" ?
Link:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...ubl056.107.pdf

I believe it was Ben Franklin (Remember him? he's on the 100 bill) who said,
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither."
not trying to beat a dead horse here:
But if I have to choise of letting the police search my coach or getting a warrent and realy searching my coach. I prefer to drive away with my coach in one piece thank you.
since 9/11 things have changed folks
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Old 06-03-2011, 03:25 PM   #38
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not trying to beat a dead horse here:.....
since 9/11 things have changed folks
I LOVE beating a dead horse!

I have read no truer statement!

In late 2001, when 19 people decided to act out against the USA and hijack 3 airplanes,
  • 250,000,000 US citizens lost a significant amount of LIBERTY,
  • 250,000,000 US citizen's Taxes went up significantly to pay for a war in the middle east (not to mention the 200,000 people killed or maimed),
  • The US police state got stronger,

and
George Orwell's 1984 got just a little bit closer..

Yep, I agree, things have gotten a lot different since late 2001!

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Old 06-03-2011, 04:03 PM   #39
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doc has the best answer.

doc has it correct. I was also a police Sgt for 25 years.
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:25 PM   #40
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Has anyone ever had an officer ask to search their MH? Sounds a little dramatic to me. I drove a truck for several years, every police officer in the world knows truckers carry guns. Never once was I ever asked or even hinted about being searched. Likewise with a MH.
Police are having a tuff time with us old farts corrupting the highways.
"Ahh sir, do you have a permit for that Geritol?" LOL
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:09 PM   #41
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The only time anyone ask to search my MH it was a routine search, I was fully expecting it and yes, I was given an option to not have it searched. (Turn around and take another route over the river).. Which, by the way, I did on later trips. (For other reasons)

This was an 9-11 inspired search, pursuant to my crossing a landmark bridge where they were searching for stuff that does not go BANG so much as BOOM.
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:53 PM   #42
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Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation on this thread, the great majority of it appears to come from one-sided anecdotes mixed with some paranoia. Let's see if I can help clear some of misunderstandings (current law enforcement Officer):

1. Search and seizure is primarily a US Constitutional issue, however State Constutions can be more restrictive than the US Constitution. What it boils down to is that there are some differences between States on how search and seizure law is interpreted and applied, but all search and seizure laws follow some basic rules.

2. Consent searches: If the Police are interested in searching, they will almost always ask for consent, regardless of whether they already possess legal authority to conduct the search (probable cause, incident to arrest, exigent circumstances etc). If you have legal standing over the property the officer wants to search, you can refuse to consent to search. You also have the right to give your consent and restrict it in any way you want to. You can restrict some areas an not others, you can put a time limit on it, you can stop it any time you want, you are in control of your consent. Bear in mind if an officer finds evidence of a crime in an area you consented to him search before you revoke your consent, it will give him probable cause to continue the search regardless of your consent. If you want to retract your consent at that point, you can, but do not be surprised if he continues searching.

3. Motor vehicle searches. If the motorhome is anywhere nears roadworthy, it is a vehicle for the purposes of search and seizure law. The motor vehicle exception to the search warrant requirement came out of the exigent circusmtances doctrine, with the thinking that the vehicle can easily be moved. So, even if you are hooked up in a campground, the fact that it would not take much to get your motorhome underway still means it is a vehicle because of its potential mobility. IF your motorhome is setup in a campground up on blocks with no wheels and the engine is tore down being rebuilt, you would have a stronger argument that the vehicle exception is not applicable, but its safer to assume that it does apply. What this means is that provided an officer has probable cause to search the vehicle, he may do so without a warrant. The burden of proof is on the officer to prove he did have probable cause in those cases.

4. Plain view. An officer sees evidence of a crime in your vehicle through the window from outside, he now has probable cause to search your vehicle. All the different areas he can search may vary slightly from state to state but with probable cause he can pretty much search anything that may provide further evidence of the crime he suspects you of committing.

5. Weapons searches. This is a greatly misunderstood area of law. The courts have been very permissive in allowing limited searches for weapons due to the safety risks to officers, especially on traffic stops. However there is no blanket provision that any time an officer stops you he can search for weapons. There has to be some articulable reason the officer has to search for the weapon. It CAN be as little as seeing you reach under your seat as he pulls you over. That is why it is always a good idea after you see the red and blues behind you to keep your hands on the steering wheel in plain view until the officer directs you to retrieve something. Generally, the officer can only search those areas within your immediate reach for a weapon. Unlike was mentioned earlier, removing you from the car does not necessarily remove the authority an officer has to do a limited weapons search of your vehicle, depending on the circumstances.

6. If you feel the need to assert your rights, do so politely, and by asserting, I mean refusing a consent search or exercising your right to remain silent. If the officer asks you to step out of the car, do so keeping your hands in plain view at all times. An officer has the legal authority to require anyone to get out of any vehicle for any reason and for no reason at all. If the officer appears to be disregarding your refusal to search (he searches anyway), then he has another legal basis for his search. Do not resist the officer in any way, shape or form.

7. Your safety net is court. If what the officer did is found to be without justification in court, then all of the evidence collected as a result of the illegal search or seizure will not be allowed as evidence in court. That is one of the most compelling of the officer's incentives to making sure he does not overstep his bounds.

8. Incident to arrest. Hopefully very unlikely to happen to anyone in here, but just in case it does, an officer can search the passenger compartment of a vehicle incident to arrest, but only if he has a reasonable basis to believe evidence of the crime he is arresting you for is in the vehicle.

9. State Weapons laws. I will only make the following observations: Some states require a concealed carry permit for you to carry in your car, others do not. Some states require you to inform any officer in contact with you that you have a permit and/or are armed, others do not. I highly recommend if you exercise your 2nd amendment right to carry you do so with full knowledge of the laws of the jurisdictions you will be in because they vary widely.

As to the post about officers not being able to carry across state lines: Not sure when you heard that conversation but federal law now grants nationwide carry for qualified law enforcement officer and retirees notwithstanding state statutes. Agency policy may dictate otherwise, but legally any law enforcement officer with powers of arrest can carry anywhere in the country, with a few exceptions I won't go into.

10. Finally, crossing the US border: Border Patrol DOES have MUCH broader authority to search at the border and within 100 miles of the border than other law enforcement agencies. I won't pretend to know all the ins and outs, but the bottom line is you can always refuse to consent to the search. They may search anyways based on their authority to do so. If they didn't have the authority, then the time to bring it up is in court.

Bottom line: Except at the border, the chances of your motorhome getting searched on a traffic stop are slim. The chances of your motorhome getting searched on a traffic stop by a rogue police officer who completely disregards search and seizure law are almost non-existent. 99% of officers are honest and law abiding. The chances of you running across the very few that are not are very slim. Officers do make mistakes sometimes, so if you feel your rights have been violated, then you have avenues of remedy available to you. Contact an attorney with your situation and he can guide you. Search and seizure law is not only complex but also always changing. It sometimes takes years of lots of judges agreeing and disagreeing with each other to make a decision about the legality of how one officer did something at one point in time with one suspect.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night (I have a MH for a reason). The above views are mine only and are not legal advice, just my understanding of search and seizure law from my training and experience as a law enforcement officer.
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