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Old 01-23-2012, 09:14 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by fletch460 View Post
I have been reading this thread with interest. My question is, has anyone been in on of the TSA road stops? where there is no 4th ammend. I understand there have been over 9000 including bus and train stations and road stops, in a surprise raid.
TSA Road Stops? I've been working in Law Enforcement for a long time and with a federal agency for the last six years...never heard of a "TSA Road Stop". To the best of my experience and information TSA only has authority at airports (most donít even have authority to be armed).

And while some people misunderstand or misinterpret what falls under the 4th amendment (including some LEO'S ) the only place I am aware that no probable cause is needed to search a motor vehicle is a border patrol checkpoint to include airports in the international customs area...
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:18 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrongwayknt View Post
TSA Road Stops? I've been working in Law Enforcement for a long time and with a federal agency for the last six years...never heard of a "TSA Road Stop". To the best of my experience and information TSA only has authority at airports (most donít even have authority to be armed).

And while some people misunderstand or misinterpret what falls under the 4th amendment (including some LEO'S ) the only place I am aware that no probable cause is needed to search a motor vehicle is a border patrol checkpoint to include airports in the international customs area...
Don't forget military bases. When you enter a military base they have a sign saying that by entering you agree to be searched if asked.

Jon
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:20 PM   #115
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Wrongwayknt, could I have misunderstood the agency and it was the homeland security doing the checks? Not stating a known fact, just heresay. I will check for validity of this persons info. Will post if affirmed.
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:34 PM   #116
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Fletch,
I would still be surprised to hear that the scenario you mentioned has occurred. I just canít figure where or how that could happen. There are locations that make the searches possible, border patrol, military posts (as correctly mentioned above) certain places at airports, etc. But not in the general public or on the open roads. Being in drug enforcement Iím pretty well versed in search and seizure so it would surprise meÖ

However, I will be the first to admit that I have been wrong in the past and learned a long time ago to never say never and would always hesitate to say someone else is wrong! (Yes I know what my foot in my mouth tastes like!)

I will be curious to hear what you find out when you check with the person you mentioned.

Now that youíve got me curious I will be checking with some of the guys at work tomorrow!
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Old 01-24-2012, 04:55 AM   #117
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Well as the debate rages on, I dare say each state, and local law enforcement agency may or may not have laws more strighent than at the federal level. With that said, as bad as I hate to see the peoples rights being trampled on in the name security or personal safety, IMHO if a LEO/agency truely wants to search your RV (I cannot imagine how that may happen assumeing you have done nothing wrong other than a traffic infraction) they will serach it, it's just a matter of how long they are going to have you sitting there before it happends. Once the search happends assumeing nothing is found one would have to resort to the courts as to weather the search was right or wrong (and tie up some more of your time)
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Old 01-24-2012, 07:27 AM   #118
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In 1964, I went into a large coin laundry buisness, which I operated for over
40 years..In 1967, our state decided to make us pay 'sales tax' on money we
didn't collect...anyway as State President of our association, every owner wanted
to be a member. ( I learned, associations grow through 'fear'.) I watched, as
Government grew larger, putting 'fear' into buisness owners throught OSHA,
Employee Pay, Inspections by everyone and it became a thing, owners never
knew who was coming through the door next, comply with this and then that,
permit for this and that, tax here than there, we notified you, it's in you park
now. (always sent that appeared to be 'junk mail')
After many years of almost, what amounted to some government justifiction
to 'protect someone, usually un-named' Costs have to be passed to the end user.

Just one example; Fire Inspection, They come in the 'Bright Red Shiney Fire Truck'
Park, sometimes blocking your customers, (now, any buisness owner, would be
happy for them to suggest improvements.) But I can tell you from experence, it
seems that where you count money is almost 'top of the list'. In all 40 years,
one inspector, was always welcome, as he was only concerned in preventing
fires, (which was opposite his 'job insurance')
I watched police, over the years, because of 'political correction' change from
protecting the buisness owner to coddling the thief. I also understand 'their side',
as the Judges are quick to not stand with them.
I, along with a policeman, watched a thief at 2:00AM, run out my back door
of my buisness, and then a 'judge? free the thief because we didn't see him
inside. If he 'came out', he must have been 'in'..where is common sense?
Any law inforcement is welcome in my RV or Home, but none that might
'set me up', so I'm forced by our system to protect myself.
In our state, if they would find a gun, either mine illegal, or one they 'dropped'
in my RV...they can 'take' my RV, sell it and use the money. If you allow a search,
without a warrant, I'd advise you have a third party wittiness, even with a warrant.
Use your camera and record on paper everything...lawyers have a way to change
the facts....gene
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:26 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Robot9000 View Post
I didn't read all 9 pages but lets be pragmatic about this.

Has anyone EVER been pulled over, and some overzealous cop searched the RV, found a gun, and some dire outcome happened? This fear of The Man strikes me as so much over the top New World Order hand wringing. If you follow the laws on guns, you got nothing to worry about if you were to ever be pulled over.
.....
Yes, you missed my post on page 4 or 5... We were pulled over, dog sniffed and "got excited" at one of the compartments which we stored a huge bag of chocolates in. The cops said it was probable cause, so they searched inside the vehicle, messed up and muddied the carpets, went through EVERYTHING - jacket pockets were turned out, checkbooks in my purse flipped through, took all my cards out of my wallet, went through briefcases, laptop bags, neatly folded clothes got all messed up, etc. Basically a bunch of stuff from cabinets were tossed on the couch and they told me they didnt want to "mess anything up" so they left it up to me to clean it and put everything away. They had the decency to put the suitcases back into the basement/underbelly though instead of leaving it on the side of the road. Believe, me, they were not just "taking a peek". They were doing full-on rummaging!
The lame thing is, the didnt even search the storage compartment of choclates where they claimed the dog "got excited"!!!!
Most of our guns were locked in bags/cases but our protection gun was in the nightstand drawer, magazine inserted - chamber UNloaded.
After 1.5 hours of searching and they found ZERO narcotics, not even a lousy cigarette, the cop tells us "youre lucky we dont arrest you and put you in jail! you had a loaded gun in your nightstand - thats illegal even with a CCW permit, it has to be unloaded." Seriously?! This was in Ohio, I read through their state rules after the incident, and it stated only if the gun is readily available/accessible to the passenger or driver. So I guess unbuckling your seatbelt, walking 35 feet to the bedroom, crawling or stepping over the bed to get to the other side, then opening the nightstand drawer to find the gun - that is readily accessible to them. Or maybe they were just making up far-fetched crap to scare me so I wont complain to their bosses about their really LOOONG search and locking us up in the back of the squad car while they did it.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:37 AM   #120
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Hypothetical scenario...
  • 68 year old couple from CO....
  • RV full time with a "domicile" in CO
  • One of the couple has stage 4 lymphoma...
  • CO MD prescribes marijuanna for pain management, as the patient is intolerant of opiates (Legal in CO)
  • Couple is touring the USA before the patient dies
  • Tail lamp burns out while driving across MO
  • Stopped by MO LEO
  • LEO asks to search
  • Driver agrees, as he has "nothing to hide"
  • LEO searches the vehicle,
  • Finds prescribed "medicine".
  • Arrests the 64 year old cancer patient and driver for possession and transportation of illegal controlled substances..
  • Patient deprived of pain relief and incarcerated
  • $1000's of dollars and more importantly months of the patients last remaining time subjected to the tortures of the legal system...


Justice???? I think not....

In this scenario the driver should have asserted his rights not to allow a search, don't you think?
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Old 01-24-2012, 01:26 PM   #121
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WACKODACO, you either have very bad luck or a license plate once used by a Pruvian drug lord, lol. I have never heard about anyone being pulled over so many times and searched each time. In an RV. In fact, I have never been pulled over with a canine unit either. I think your problem is not so much guns as it is something that is flagging the cops.
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Old 01-24-2012, 02:23 PM   #122
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Agricultural inspection station entering California from Nevada on Interstate 15 north of Barstow, station attendant, after asking permission, entered my motorhome and looked inside my fridge. Does this constitute unlawful search?
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Old 01-24-2012, 02:48 PM   #123
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wrongwayknt, did check with person mentiond. All he could tell me as he was on the run was to google homeland security raids. Ihops, railway stati9ns etc. I did and what I read scares the hell out of me.
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Old 01-24-2012, 02:51 PM   #124
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They Are not suppose to enter without a warrant. and must have probable cause. the only exception are the following:
1: at all Federal, Military and or "Secured" Control Points
2. At a Border of another Country From the U.S. Side.
3. During A Presidential Event:
4. If Martial Law has been declared.

But the way they are training most of the news guys their is a "Major" lack of discipline
Hope this helps,
Nick, U.S. Spec. Ops.
5. If you consent to a search.
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Old 01-24-2012, 02:57 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mythplaced View Post
Hypothetical scenario...
  • 68 year old couple from CO....
  • RV full time with a "domicile" in CO
  • One of the couple has stage 4 lymphoma...
  • CO MD prescribes marijuanna for pain management, as the patient is intolerant of opiates (Legal in CO)
  • Couple is touring the USA before the patient dies
  • Tail lamp burns out while driving across MO
  • Stopped by MO LEO
  • LEO asks to search
  • Driver agrees, as he has "nothing to hide"
  • LEO searches the vehicle,
  • Finds prescribed "medicine".
  • Arrests the 64 year old cancer patient and driver for possession and transportation of illegal controlled substances..
  • Patient deprived of pain relief and incarcerated
  • $1000's of dollars and more importantly months of the patients last remaining time subjected to the tortures of the legal system...


Justice???? I think not....

In this scenario the driver should have asserted his rights not to allow a search, don't you think?
In EVERY scenario the driver should assert his 4th amendment right to refuse consent to search. No one should EVER consent to allow their RV to be searched. There is NO advantage to ever consent to search, even if you have nothing to hide.

Make the officer say that you are 'BEING DETAINED", and make him search without your consent if he wants to search.
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Old 01-24-2012, 02:58 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselclacker View Post
Agricultural inspection station entering California from Nevada on Interstate 15 north of Barstow, station attendant, after asking permission, entered my motorhome and looked inside my fridge. Does this constitute unlawful search?
Maybe it was Miller Time.
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