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Old 02-27-2014, 05:00 PM   #15
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My 99 bounder (454) would not charge the house batteries. Added BIRD now they fully charge from the engine.
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:28 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by GaryKD View Post
Hi psandoz,
Be aware, there are iRV2 members who will post your coach batteries must/always and without a doubt charge coach batteries from the alternator. Rest assured, these members are wrong. I have personal experience on Bounders, Beaver's and HRs (about the same year as your coach) that do not charge the house batteries from the alternator. Members who continually post this incorrect information should provide their personal experience that provided the basis for their post.

You are correct to post in the Damon forum.
You (any of you who have posted here) have NEVER seen a Bounder that was not designed to charge the coach batteries from the alternator while driving. I will stake your life on that. In fact, I'm willing to bet that you have never seen a Fleetwood coach of any type (C or A) that was not designed with that capability. I feel very confident that the same could be said for any coach manufactured since the '50s or '60s.

The early motorhomes used a basic diode battery isolator, but most have changed to a solenoid based isolator over time.

I have had motorhomes (they were not all Fleetwoods) from the '70s, '80 and '90s, they ALL had provision to charge the house batteries from the alternator.
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:43 PM   #17
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My 99 bounder (454) would not charge the house batteries. Added BIRD now they fully charge from the engine.
Here's the documentation for the BCC installed in your '99 Bounder that contains circuitry that was designed to accomplish the charging of your house batteries from the alternator, AND charge the chassis battery from the charger.

It contains the BIRD function, but may have become defective.
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:52 PM   #18
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You (any of you who have posted here) have NEVER seen a Bounder that was not designed to charge the coach batteries from the alternator while driving. I will stake your life on that. In fact, I'm willing to bet that you have never seen a Fleetwood coach of any type (C or A) that was not designed with that capability. I feel very confident that the same could be said for any coach manufactured since the '50s or '60s.

The early motorhomes used a basic diode battery isolator, but most have changed to a solenoid based isolator over time.

I have had motorhomes (they were not all Fleetwoods) from the '70s, '80 and '90s, they ALL had provision to charge the house batteries from the alternator.
I will add, if you had a diode isolator, and it failed, good luck finding it under the dirt !!

BTW, I have a BIRD and don't have it enabled. I have a solar trickle charger on the House side and virtually no parasitic drain on the Chassis side (cuz the RV is old) ... and live in sunny Florida. Everything is good for months without a visit.

Parasitic drain is an all new "feature" due to our insistence on having more "stuff".
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:04 PM   #19
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Thanks for the responses and I will post on the Damon forum. Loulong - the BCC is an Intellitec BCC Diesel 310 (00-00606310). If you have any ideas how to proceed please let me know.
Here's the documentation for the BCC (Battery Control Center) that Damon used in the manufacture of your coach. It has trouble shooting instructions to verify the charging of your house batteries from the alternator on page 7.
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:33 PM   #20
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I will add, if you had a diode isolator, and it failed, good luck finding it under the dirt !!

BTW, I have a BIRD and don't have it enabled. I have a solar trickle charger on the House side and virtually no parasitic drain on the Chassis side (cuz the RV is old) ... and live in sunny Florida. Everything is good for months without a visit.

Parasitic drain is an all new "feature" due to our insistence on having more "stuff".
Surely you don't disable the BIRD function (in the alternator to coach battery direction) while driving. I can see just turning it off in storage, or sometimes even while parked with shore power, if you have a good trickle charger, but not while driving.

I would miss my "crock pot" meals on the road if I did that.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:00 PM   #21
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Surely you don't disable the BIRD function (in the alternator to coach battery direction) while driving. I can see just turning it off in storage, or sometimes even while parked with shore power, if you have a good trickle charger, but not while driving.

I would miss my "crock pot" meals on the road if I did that.
In my case, I seldom drive over 3 hours so hardly ever (as in can't remember) use the Inverter. And can't remember the last time I enabled the BIRD. But I do like my crockpot

Long story short, when the RV is in storage, the House solar charging and the design of the Intellitec BIRD cause problems. Because there is no lockout for a solar charger, the BIRD picked the Solenoid whenever the charger went "high" ... then the voltage drops when the Chassis batteries come online ... then the BIRD drops the Solenoid ... then the whole process starts over again. The BIRD design is just not expecting the House batteries to ever go "high" unless the genset is running or Shore power is connected ... and there's a sense line for the genset. So the BIRD solenoid (pick) would actually draw enough current to limit the solar charging. Of course the current draw is inconsequential when the Alternator or Genset/Shore Inverter/Charger is supplying the charge.

So, in my case, I just don't need a BIRD. Others love theirs. I do see the benefit for those folks ... when it's working

My RV actually would have been better off with the old Diode Isolator.

I also don't have any Battery Disconnect (AKA salesman switches) circuits/solenoids. Marine switches only.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:50 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by bruceisla View Post
In my case, I seldom drive over 3 hours so hardly ever (as in can't remember) use the Inverter. And can't remember the last time I enabled the BIRD. But I do like my crockpot

Long story short, when the RV is in storage, the House solar charging and the design of the Intellitec BIRD cause problems. Because there is no lockout for a solar charger, the BIRD picked the Solenoid whenever the charger went "high" ... then the voltage drops when the Chassis batteries come online ... then the BIRD drops the Solenoid ... then the whole process starts over again. The BIRD design is just not expecting the House batteries to ever go "high" unless the genset is running or Shore power is connected ... and there's a sense line for the genset. So the BIRD solenoid (pick) would actually draw enough current to limit the solar charging. Of course the current draw is inconsequential when the Alternator or Genset/Shore Inverter/Charger is supplying the charge.

So, in my case, I just don't need a BIRD. Others love theirs. I do see the benefit for those folks ... when it's working

My RV actually would have been better off with the old Diode Isolator.

I also don't have any Battery Disconnect (AKA salesman switches) circuits/solenoids. Marine switches only.
The Diesel version of the BIRD is the only one that has the Gen Sense connection, the gas version does not. Some diesel alternators and dash meters get confused when seeing higher than battery voltage when the alternator and generator are running at the same time. The lead is used to disable the BIRD during this time.

You could attach your solar output to the gen lead, and use that to prevent that BIRD on/off cycling that you described, but still have the bird available when driving if you wanted. Just a thought.

Some of the higher end Monaco coaches actually use an IRD and solenoid combo for charging house batteries from the alternator, then use a Diode Isolator to charge the chassis batteries from the converter, solar or Inverter/charger. There's all kinds of arrangements used by the various builders.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:13 PM   #23
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Here's the documentation for the BCC installed in your '99 Bounder that contains circuitry that was designed to accomplish the charging of your house batteries from the alternator, AND charge the chassis battery from the charger.

It contains the BIRD function, but may have become defective.
You are correct- that function was inop when I purchased the bounder.

Unfortunately is failure mode was not charging any batteries. The seller had it all charged up... I noticed the dash voltmeter wasnt moving but put a volt meter on the alternator and it indicated 14volts. So I assumed the gauge had a problem.

Driving it home the night i bought it I made it about ten miles onto the parkway before my headlights dimmed and she died. Ended up running the genny with a 15 amp battery charger TyWrapped to the grill with an extension cord out the passenger window powering it off the genny. Made it 150 miles at night with out any problems good thing it wasn't raining!

Way better than a tow and cheaper
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:32 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by loulong View Post
The Diesel version of the BIRD is the only one that has the Gen Sense connection, the gas version does not. Some diesel alternators and dash meters get confused when seeing higher than battery voltage when the alternator and generator are running at the same time. The lead is used to disable the BIRD during this time.

You could attach your solar output to the gen lead, and use that to prevent that BIRD on/off cycling that you described, but still have the bird available when driving if you wanted. Just a thought.

Some of the higher end Monaco coaches actually use an IRD and solenoid combo for charging house batteries from the alternator, then use a Diode Isolator to charge the chassis batteries from the converter, solar or Inverter/charger. There's all kinds of arrangements used by the various builders.
Thanks ... that's actually a good idea but I think I'd have to put a switch in that line to enable the BIRD (kill the solar voltage) or it would think the Genset is always running. The solar is original rooftop with a new controller. Due to my lack of actual BIRD need, I opted for a switch in the power lead to the BIRD. It's right inside the rear battery compartment and easily accessible but can't get to it while driving. The location was my choice for simplicity (the BIRD is 6 inches away). Mostly, the coach is in sunlight for at least 8 hours. Because I am the old 3126 diesel, I have no parasitic draw on the Chassis. I have a 120vac trickle charger in the compartment next to the Chassis bats but it's never been used. It's simple but suits my needs.

I'm gonna' make a note of your idea in case I get ambitious and want to run a switch at the dash. Thanks for the input !!

I guess this is a bit of a thread hijack but hopefully it's additional info for the OP. You can't have too much info re:BIRD circuits ...
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:37 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Fl_Richard View Post
You are correct- that function was inop when I purchased the bounder.
Unfortunately is failure mode was not charging any batteries. The seller had it all charged up... I noticed the dash voltmeter wasnt moving but put a volt meter on the alternator and it indicated 14volts. So I assumed the gauge had a problem.
Driving it home the night i bought it I made it about ten miles onto the parkway before my headlights dimmed and she died. Ended up running the genny with a 15 amp battery charger TyWrapped to the grill with an extension cord out the passenger window powering it off the genny. Made it 150 miles at night with out any problems good thing it wasn't raining!
Way better than a tow and cheaper
You were more resourceful than the average bear. Quick thinking... Good Show.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:41 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Fl_Richard View Post
You are correct- that function was inop when I purchased the bounder.

Unfortunately is failure mode was not charging any batteries. The seller had it all charged up... I noticed the dash voltmeter wasnt moving but put a volt meter on the alternator and it indicated 14volts. So I assumed the gauge had a problem.

Driving it home the night i bought it I made it about ten miles onto the parkway before my headlights dimmed and she died. Ended up running the genny with a 15 amp battery charger TyWrapped to the grill with an extension cord out the passenger window powering it off the genny. Made it 150 miles at night with out any problems good thing it wasn't raining!

Way better than a tow and cheaper
Good show !! you just cant have too many Ty Wraps ... or duct tape ... or lengths of PVC pipe.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:45 PM   #27
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Thanks ... that's actually a good idea but I think I'd have to put a switch in that line to enable the BIRD (kill the solar voltage) or it would think the Genset is always running. The solar is original rooftop with a new controller. Due to my lack of actual BIRD need, I opted for a switch in the power lead to the BIRD. It's right inside the rear battery compartment and easily accessible but can't get to it while driving. The location was my choice for simplicity (the BIRD is 6 inches away). Mostly, the coach is in sunlight for at least 8 hours. Because I am the old 3126 diesel, I have no parasitic draw on the Chassis. I have a 120vac trickle charger in the compartment next to the Chassis bats but it's never been used. It's simple but suits my needs.

I'm gonna' make a note of your idea in case I get ambitious and want to run a switch at the dash. Thanks for the input !!

I guess this is a bit of a thread hijack but hopefully it's additional info for the OP. You can't have too much info re:BIRD circuits ...
Yes, you would need to have that input under switch control.

As for the thread hijack, that was already done earlier by several folks who, I hope have also learned something.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:58 PM   #28
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Yes, you would need to have that input under switch control.

As for the thread hijack, that was already done earlier by several folks who, I hope have also learned something.
Hey Lou ... here's my original discussion on solar/BIRD

Yet another Intellitec BIRD question(s)

BTW, this all started because my Freedom 20D Inverter wouldn't work ... because the Remote Panel had a blown fuse (main fuse panel under hood on firewall) ... which was a shared fuse to the BIRD and the pick of the Solenoid ... and the Solenoid had a shorted coil ... so the Inverter wouldn't work Oh ... and the 12vdc line to the Remote Panel is on the HR Endeavor wiring diagram but doesn't show up in any Freedom 20/Xantec documents or diagrams. And the 12vdc cable that plugs into the Remote isn't in any pictures or Freedom/Xantec manuals. It just got better and better ...
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