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Old 09-24-2015, 09:32 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by patncris View Post
Gemini 5362 - you are correct. i purchased a circuit tester, and found that the external outlet into which my Breeze is plugged has an open ground, as does every other plug in that outbuilding. Nothing wrong with the Breeze.
Now I need to find out where the power for that building is hooked up, and why it has no ground. Thanks!
Muldoon
I am not going to get into a big safety issue here. I would recommend you try and find room in your budget for an EMS such as the progressive industries version here is their webage

Progressive Industries RV Surge and Electrical Protection industry lea

If you would have had something like this on your coach it would have told you that there was a problem and not allowed AC into your coach. The unit is a relay that is deenergized until the internal circuitry determines you have the correct voltage and the correct neutral and a ground. When i had a problem I disabled my unit to allow power to the coach because I personally wired my house and knew there was not a problem in the house wiring. I have been at campgrounds where the wiring was incorrect and it did not allow any power into my coach. I moved to a different pedestal when that happened and found later that the owner had wired in some new pedestals himself rather that with an electrician. The unit probably saved me from buying a new inverter, television, microwave, refrigerator etc. It is a good investment and for the people that are worried about the safety involved with not having a ground it will protect you from that.
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Old 09-24-2015, 09:42 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by TQ60 View Post
If not isolated then fix that NOW!

A ground buss is an in Stock item at most places that sell panels and most panels have 2 with a connector bar to make them either main or sub.
This is a reference to a page that discusses this. electrical - Is it ok to have mixed grounds and neutrals on bars in a breaker box? - Home Improvement Stack Exchange

According to this reference in my house I only have the ground and neutral tied together in my main panel. Do you disagree with what they say in this article and if you do not mind my asking, why do you disagree. I am not being argumentative just curious why you think it is a safety issue.
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Old 09-24-2015, 01:58 PM   #17
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I do not know how they wire the AC panel in a MH is the Neutral and the Ground connect to the same bar like some houses do. Are all of the appliances in the unit have the neutral isolated from the case.
I DO know and they are not, at least not when properly installed per the electrical code and RVIA standards. Per the NEC, there should never be a neutral-ground bond inside the RV, in the load center or anywhere else.

The RV chassis is, however, connected to the 120v ground wiring. That's required to protect the occupants in case a 120vac wire shorts to the chassis. It only works, though, if there is a proper external ground connection.

In any 120/240v electrical system there should never be current or voltage in the ground wire. It is always a fault if there is (that's why we have GFCI outlets and breakers).
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Old 09-24-2015, 06:28 PM   #18
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Gary is correct: every electrical code I've ever seen specifies that the main panel in a structure is the only place where the neutral and ground are bonded together - everything downstream from the main panel is designated as a sub-panel, and neutral and ground must remain separate in all sub-panels.
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Old 09-24-2015, 06:48 PM   #19
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I was under my 2011 Tiffin Breeze investigating a caution light that came on, when I brushed part of the exhaust system with my elbow. I thought something had bit me, but it turned out to be a shock. The RV is in storage, plugged into 110v to maintain the batteries.

I went to get my multimeter, and tested for AC annd DC voltages. Standing next to the coach in my sneakers, there was no voltage between me (holding the negative lead in one hand and probing with the positive lead) and any point on the chassis. And in my sneaks, I didn't feel any tingling. But repeating the test in my bare feet, I measured 8.3 volts all over the chassis. The meter jumps to 16.2 volts immediately, wherever I touch the positive lead, settling down each time to 8.3vdc. I get the same result by sticking the negative lead in the dirt, and touching anywhere on the chassis.

The stray voltage is not there when I unplug the coach from the extension cord,

nor is it present when the Genset is running and supplying power.

A tech at Tiffin suggested that the plug into which the extension cord is plugged might be wired incorrectly, but I took it apart, and all is well.

Is it possible that this normal? Doesn't seem right to me.

Muldoon

One of the most commonly overlooked causes is assuming the outlet you have your extension cord connected to is correctly wired. Have you checked it?


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Old 09-24-2015, 08:55 PM   #20
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The connection to earth ground is at the point of entry or at the meter.

That point is often called the "meter ground" and is the only point where neutral and safety ground are connected.

All other points of distribution or sub panels require them to be seperate.

Most panels have 2 seperate busses for non - hot side.

One usually has connection for white and the other one often has a removable bar or strap between it and neutral so it can be configured as main or sub via simple work.
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Old 09-24-2015, 09:07 PM   #21
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The extension cord is plugged into a source that is incorrectly wired. Use your continuity checker.
patncris
FreedomDream MIGHT be correct....OR the the ends on the cord have gone bad OR an electrical adapter is bad ....among other things.
(In my case replacing the female end on the 30A cord I was using cured the problem)
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Old 09-25-2015, 10:55 AM   #22
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Mis-wiring the source in a way that could cause the chassis to be hot would normally result in a no-power situation, so it would be obvious. But mis-wiring the outlet so that a short somewhere in the RV results in a shock when touching the chassis is easy - it only takes an open ground to do that. And I think the OP has already established that the outlet had no ground.
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Old 09-25-2015, 11:09 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patncris View Post
I was under my 2011 Tiffin Breeze investigating a caution light that came on, when I brushed part of the exhaust system with my elbow. I thought something had bit me, but it turned out to be a shock. The RV is in storage, plugged into 110v to maintain the batteries.
I went to get my multimeter, and tested for AC annd DC voltages. Standing next to the coach in my sneakers, there was no voltage between me (holding the negative lead in one hand and probing with the positive lead) and any point on the chassis. And in my sneaks, I didn't feel any tingling. But repeating the test in my bare feet, I measured 8.3 volts all over the chassis. The meter jumps to 16.2 volts immediately, wherever I touch the positive lead, settling down each time to 8.3vdc. I get the same result by sticking the negative lead in the dirt, and touching anywhere on the chassis.
The stray voltage is not there when I unplug the coach from the extension cord,
nor is it present when the Genset is running and supplying power.
A tech at Tiffin suggested that the plug into which the extension cord is plugged might be wired incorrectly, but I took it apart, and all is well.
Is it possible that this normal? Doesn't seem right to me.
Muldoon
First, be sure the chassis is grounded through the plug's ground pin. Once you have a positive connection at this point, there shouldn't be any voltage on the chassis and if there was a significant leak to ground it would trip the breaker. Now, check for any current draw with a tong meter or other at the pedestal with the main coach breaker off. You should have a 0 reading and if not, the entire shore power cord needs to be checked from the plug end to the transfer switch. Disconnect at the transfer sw. and read each lead with an ohmmeter.
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:09 AM   #24
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patncris
FreedomDream MIGHT be correct....OR the the ends on the cord have gone bad OR an electrical adapter is bad ....among other things.
(In my case replacing the female end on the 30A cord I was using cured the problem)
Mel
'96 Safari
Mel,
That reminds me the time I went to plug into our 50 Amp socket at the next campground and saw that I had no ground prong on the plug which was original to our 4 year old rig. It had just pulled right out and was most likely still in the female outlet at the last campground. I immediately went to Camping World and got a replacement male plug. I called the last campground and told them what I had found and they said, "no problem", they would take care of it. If they didn't, I can only imagine the surprise of the guy who tried to plug into my old site.
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